Morality of LG spellcasting

[chitzk0i]

Wrong handle, sorry.

 

[VirgilCaine]

This is a list my group came up with of (core) spells which would be forbidden:

Mind Fog, Nightmare, Phantasmal Killer, Slay Living, Symbol of Death, Symbol of Insanity, Symbol of Pain, Wail of the Banshee.

These spells were chosen because they were either evil, choatic, inflicted pain or suffering, or desecrated the dead.

I guess being frozen to death by a Cone of Cold or being cut to death with a greatsword or having your spine severed with a rapier isn't as bad as being scared to death by a Phantasmal Killer or killed by a death effect.
If you're going to avoid pain and suffering, use Pattern spells or Charm Person or nonlethal poisons or other means to capture the enemy instead of killing them.

Speak with dead is considered desecrating a corpse. In our opinion, Contact other plane would be preferred (except if it would require contacting an evil outsider). Why ask a corpse when you can talk to the soul?

That's not what Contact Other Plane does, RAW--you're talking to powers or deities, not a petitioner or someone's soul.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

In the coarse of my campaign our party has, in the face of great evil, all come to worship Heironeous. Since none of us have much history of playing lawful good characters, it has developed into some interesting discussions.

The most recent of which are, what spells would be forbidden (or limited) to spell casters (arcane and divine). With the exception of use in warfare, or within the legal framework of a LG community.

This is a list my group came up with of (core) spells which would be forbidden:

Animate Dead, Bane, Binding, Blasphemy, Choas Hammer, Circle of Death, Cloak of Chaos, Contagion, Create (Greater) Undead, Crushing Despair, Curse Water, Death Knell, Deathwatch, Demand, Desecrate, Destruction, Dispel Good, Dispel Law, Eyebite, Finger of Death, Harm, Insanity, Magic Circle against Good, Magic Circle against Law, Mind Fog, Nightmare, Phantasmal Killer, Protection from Good, Protection from Law, Slay Living, Symbol of Death, Symbol of Insanity, Symbol of Pain, Unhallow, Unholy Aura, Unholy Blight, Wail of the Banshee, Word of Chaos.

These spells were chosen because they were either evil, choatic, inflicted pain or suffering, or desecrated the dead.

Mind altering spell would be illegal except against evil or during a "Crisis of Faith" (a period of persecution of large numbers of church members for their faith). Even during this period their use are only allowed when they would save lives or hide the identities of church members from hostile factions.

Charm Person, Charm Monster, Detect Thoughts, Dominate Monster, Dominate Person, Modify Memory, Speak with Dead.

Speak with dead is considered desecrating a corpse. In our opinion, Contact other plane would be preferred (except if it would require contacting an evil outsider). Why ask a corpse when you can talk to the soul?

I was wondering what the community's take on this is, and if they would have any suggestions or comments to share.

First off, I applaud the fact that your group sat down and discussed the consequences of their characters' choice of divine patron like that.

About the choice of forbidden spells...I like it that you all included some based on the fluff rather than on any mechanical descriptors. Of course, you might have eliminated a few spells you might have found useful in some situations, and as this thread shows, there's a way to justify nearly every spell being useable...what I find intrigueing in such a campaign is not how to find a way to use a "forbidden" spell and justify it, but to find a way to solve the problem another way. Spell research would be one way. Creative use of other spells would be a second. Trying to solve the problem entirely without magic a third. The roleplaying opportunities that arise from such situations alone are more than worth the fact that a few useful spells are suddenly banned by consent.

So from my point of view, congrats on having a game with plenty of roleplaying and character interaction potential.

 

[Grithfang]

First off, I applaud the fact that your group sat down and discussed the consequences of their characters' choice of divine patron like that. . .

So from my point of view, congrats on having a game with plenty of roleplaying and character interaction potential.

We are playing Ravenloft, I cannot wait to have the opportunity to say "I am the Fist of Heironeous, you are a creature of evil and have been judged unredeemable, prepare to die!"

 

[Slife]

Deathwatch has the evil descriptor.

Which is really stupid, since it's only useful for healers. IMC, it's houseruled to be descriptorless.

I think that's a pretty fair list, though the Symbols might not really apply. This is one reason I was really hoping we'd have spell templates in 4E: in something like Arcana Unearthed, you can take a feat that lets you turn the damage from a spell into non-lethal damage. Perfect for dealing huge amounts of knockout damage in an area, yet not killing innocent people.

If I recall correctly, there is a nonlethal substitution metamagic. (either +1 or +0)

 

[kenobi65]

If I recall correctly, there is a nonlethal substitution metamagic. (either +1 or +0)

Nonlethal Substitution, Complete Arcane, p. 81. +1 level. By the book, you need to choose an energy type (fire, cold, etc.) when you take the feat, and can only substitute that energy type with nonlethal damage, which seems like an unnecessary weakening of the feat to me.