I think the jedi mind trick is an artifact of Star Wars being in the 1970s, rather than mind control being OK if it's a jedi doing it. (The 1970s were a very rapey time.)
That said, I don't think it's a binary of good vs. evil. Obi-Wan clouding stormtroopers' minds is better than him cutting them down for asking for his ID. But it's still not a zero-harm situation, no matter what.
Right. So that gives us the idea of lesser and greater evil. It's worse, morally, to kill them...despite being space Nazis...than it is to control their minds. Granted. But it's still not good to control their minds.
I'm willing to accept a rather broad definition of mind control that includes deception, directly controlling someone's physical actions, charming them, etc., etc.
I'm not because it muddies the waters and equates things that are not the same. Lying is presenting false information and letting the person make up their own mind. Mind control is simply taking control of the person's mind. It's a categorical difference between lying and mind control. Two wildly different things.
Was old Ben Kenobi wrong to convince that stormtrooper those weren't the droids he was looking for? No. It's the equivalent of lying to Nazis when they arrive at your doorstep asking if you have any Jews inside. Morally acceptable.
Totally agree. Because in that instance, as mentioned by Whiz, it's a case of reducing harm. Ben can either cut them down and start a whole thing...or he can wave his hand at them and control their minds. The particulars are important. He's not forcing them to do something wild or evil, simply letting Ben, Luke, and the droids pass their checkpoint. But, again as above, it's still removing a sentient creature's free will. This is not a good act, but it's not as evil as cutting them down.
If I were attacked by a hostile group would it be wrong of me to dominate one their mind's, forcing them to defend me? Again, I think most of us would be okay with that.
As a selfish act to preserve my own life, sure. Most people could probably accept that. But it's still removing a sentient creature's free will and forcing them to attack friends and colleagues.
I think it's the circumstances that make it acceptable, especially what harm is prevented because of its use. Change things around a bit and see what happens to the moral calculus.
An authority figure mind controls a criminal to stop committing a crime.
A vigilante mind controls a criminal to stop committing a crime.
A mother mind controls her kids to behave.
A boss mind controls his employees to work faster.
Your spouse mind controls you to finally get on that to-do list.
There are infinite variations on this. For most people, I'd guess the lines are pretty clear. Is it justified in the particular circumstances. It's relatively easy to find the obvious "don't cross this line" spots. That's not as interesting to me. The harder ones are the ones closer to "the center" as it were.
If Ben Kenobi had used his expert deception skills and just lied to the stormtrooper would it be any better?
Yes. Because the Stormtroopers would retain their free will. It's one of those things we're cavalier about sacrificing for other people, but would absolutely go mad if it were used against us. I always question things like that.
I think thats the main reason the Jedi mind trick gets a pass in that case - its just a boost to a very good deception (a white lie if you will)
I disagree, as explained above.
That differs significantly to someone being controlled to do something against their will, its manipulation and coercion taken to extreme - and thats abuse
Yes. Lying and mind control are categorically different things. Convincing a cop to let you out of a ticket is one thing. Telepathically entering their mind and taking control over it to force them to let you out of a ticket is something entirely different. As you say, it's abuse.
You can switch the circumstances and the target infinitely to arrive at the spots where it's acceptable. Preventing violence, etc. But I'd suggest it's only a lesser evil, not a good.
