Mordenkainen's Disjunction revision

[nameless]

Disjunction is one of the most problematic spells in high level D&D, this is well established. I'm throwing around a house rule on it to make it still nasty as hell, but not permanently crippling.

What do you guys think?

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Mordenkainen's Disjunction
Level: Magic 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target or Area: One magic item or 40-ft.-radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: No

Area Disjunction: All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except those you carry or touch, are disjoined. That is, all active magical effects automatically end (as if dispel magic had been cast), and all magic items have their abilities suppressed. If a creature is attending the items, only 2d4 are suppressed per creature (use table 10-1 Items affected by magical attacks to determine affected items). All suppressed items get a Will saving throw (or its possessors Will saving throw, whichever is higher) to resist. Any item that fails is suppressed in function for 1d4 rounds + 1 round per 3 levels of the caster.

You also have a 1% chance per caster level of destroying an antimagic field. If the antimagic survives the disjunction, no temporarily suppressed spells or items in it are disjoined.

Targeted Disjunction: The caster targets one magic item he or she is aware of within range. If that item fails a Will save (or its possessor does, whichever has a higher save bonus), then it is instantly and permanently rendered nonmagical.

Even artifacts are subject to a targeted disjunction, though there is only a 1% chance per caster level of actually affecting such powerful items. Additionally, if an artifact is destroyed, you must make a DC 25 Will save or permanently lose all spellcasting abilities. (These abilities cannot be recovered by mortal magic, not even Miracle or Wish.)

Note: Destroying artifacts is a dangerous business, and it is 95% likely to attract the attention of some powerful being who has an interest in or connection with the device.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Personally I'd go for something simpler... treat it exactly as normal except that instead of destroying magic items that fail their save it renders them unusable for 1 hour per caster level (you could even go for 1 round per caster level if wanted).

AFAIS the basic problem with MD is that it removes "wealth" directly from characters, and this radically unbalances the characters at the levels where they are likely to encounter it. With this modification it is still fantastic at stripping magical protections etc. but doesn't do long-term damage to the campaigns wealth structure.

Cheers

 

[Thanee]

..., and this radically unbalances the characters at the levels where they are likely to encounter it.

Absolutely!

We are playing at 14th level now (but pretty buff PCs) and currently we are in a location where MD is thrown on us about twice per evening.

Some of the PCs have no magical equipment at all left, while others (like me) pretty much have everything still (my Will save is... high ).

The bad thing is, that the stuff encountered there is so tough, that we can't simply leave the items out there, so we currently run around with multiple stacked bags of holding (we ruled MD so that the items spill out of the bag if destroyed and are not subject of the effect, since it is instanteneous), antimagic fields and whatnot.

Bye
Thanee

 

[nameless]

Personally I'd go for something simpler...

Simpler is good, but this version is still simpler than the normal version in play. Normally, all the magic items have to make saving throws, which is a lot of die rolling. With this, only 2d4 (which might be all, but is likely to just be some) need to save, but it will probably be 2d4 important ones. The spell is basically the same, but it only temporarily suppresses magic items, and only affects some magic items. Tweaking the duration of suppression would simplify the housekeeping of the spell somewhat, but I was trying to make it a duration that might end during a long combat. 1 round per level is no big deal, but 1 hour per level is a little punitive. No other offensive spell has a duration that long, except for the mind-affecting ones.

I do like the idea of being able to destroy a magic item if you really want to, though. You have items like the Rod of Cancellation that can do it, you might as well allow a Disjunction to do it (sometimes).

 

[Liquidsabre]

Looks pretty good, I'd also add that on a critical fail the item is also destroyed (instead of suppressed).

 

[maggot]

I'd suggest making Mord's a targeted greater dispelling on each creature and item in the area. That is brutal enough. If you want it to be automatically effective as it is now, say the level check always succeeds. If you really want to destroy items, allow each item that would be effected a Will save, if failed the suppression is permanent.

I don't care for the artifact destroying property of Mords. (otherwise known as the adventure destroying property.) Why return the Ring to Mount Doom, just hit it with a few Mords and next adventure.

 

[Storminator]

We houseruled MD to suppress items for 1 day per caster level. You really feel it when you're disjoined. It certainly tops our list of terrifying spells. We've gone whole combats where the sorcerer does nothing but ready to counterspell a MD. And my cohort will be learning MD as her first 9th level spell, just so she can reactive counterspell it.

PS

 

[Kerrick]

I came up with something similar recently, when I thought of a fix for antimagic field and MD. What I had was that it if it's an area effect, it had to make a caster level check (up to +30) against all spells, and all items gain a Will save or be suppressed (I like the 1 day/level thing). This has a chance to work against epic spells. If it's a targetted disjunction, the spell effect is automatically dispelled (if non-epic); if the item fails its save, it's destroyed. This version cannot destroy artifacts; I don't believe that a non-epic spell could be used to destroy such powerful items.

I also had an epic version called (ironically enough) greater disjunction, which can dispel other epic spells (on either area or targetted); items may save, but there is a +10 to the DC for non-epic; epic items have a normal save, and artifacts can be destroyed. It is otherwise identical to the lesser version.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Ironically, house-ruling MDJ to suppress items' powers rather than destroying them outright may make the spell MORE broken, since PCs will start slinging it around! IMHO, the big problems with MDJ are as follows:

1) Automatic effect. The fact that MDJ dispels all magic regardless of caster level makes it overpowered as hell at epic levels, and pretty darn tough at non-epic levels too. Dispel requires a level check AND has a level cap; so does greater dispelling, three levels later; nonetheless, three levels past GD, we suddenly do away with the level check (and thus render the level cap moot) AND allow the spell to remove multiple effects per target. Too much.

2) Disparate impact. MDJ wreaks utter havoc on high-level fighters by stripping them both of their much-needed buffs and of their precious items; moreover, it targets a fighter's weak save! Casters, OTOH, can usually make do without their items, can make new items, AND have good Will saves to protect against this spell.

3) No sauce for the goose. MDJ (like Sunder) is a no-no for PCs, due to the treasure-destroying effect, but can be used time and again as a PC-hoser. DMs thus have to develop a pretty sophisticated set of NPC motivations to justify use or abstinence from use of this spell in a given situation, which generally cuts against 3e rules philosophy.

Given these various problems, it seems to me that the simplest fix for the spell is the one proposed by maggot: Just make it a targeted greater dispel effect against every creature, item, and free-standing magical effect in the AoE. If you think that this doesn't justify a three-level boost from greater dispel (personally, I think it does), raise the level cap to +25 or +30, allow automatic success against certain kinds of effects, and/or retain the 1%/level chance of destroying an AMF. This way, items will only have their powers negated for 1d4 rounds at best, and you can dispense with the artifact issue entirely. I also like Kerrick's greater disjunction idea; that's a nice-sounding epic spell!

 

[Falling Icicle]

This is my least favorite spell of them all. Of all the rules I have disliked, hated, dispised, laughed at, or otherwise disagreed with in every roleplaying game I have ever seen or played, this one beats them all. I loathe this spell with more passion than I could ever put into words! I am relieved to see that others see the horrible, munchkin stupidity of this spell and want to correct it in their games. But I don't think you went quite far enough.

I would also make it so that it has to make a dispel check (with a level cap of 40). The fact that it automatically, without a roll, dispels anything is extremely stupid and cheap. Even Epic magic can't do that. This is especially vexing with spells that were made permanent with precious experience points. At the very least there should be a roll.

And, while I think you have taken a step in the right direction by making it so it can only disenchant one magic item at a time, I would prefer that it could not do this at all. I loathe the idea that someone can, with a mere flick of the wrist, destroy an item I spent months, tens or even hundreds of thousands of gold, and thousands of experience creating. The fact that it can even destroy artifacts is even more ludicrous.

Frodo: "What are we going to do, Gandalf? The ring must be destroyed!"
Gandalf: "Frodo, put the ring here."
Frodo: "What are you doing Gandalf?"
Gandalf: "I'm casting Mordenkainen's Disjunction."
Frodo: "Morde- what?"
Gandalf: "Never mind, my boy. Our problems will be over soon enough."
Gandalf: Speaks a few words and gestures in the air.
Sauron: Explodes.
Gandalf: "There we are. It's done." Hands the ring to Frodo. "Here, my boy. A momento for you."
Frodo: "It doesn't look any different."
Gandalf: "Trust me. Piece of cake, really."

Perhaps you could have it supress an item that is individually targeted for an entire day (rather than d4 rounds). But disenchanting an item with a spell is beyond ridiculous.