More about wizards by kunadam

[Abstraction]

Overall I like it a lot. Splitting powers into combat powers and rituals seems to be what the designers were talking about when they said they were "siloing" powers.

I'm not sure how I feel about restricting the focus of Wizard powers. On one hand, I like wizards to be potentially able to do anything, like a generic master of all powers. On the other hand, it is nice to leave space for other magic-using classes to be specialized in. I just hope that through multiclassing and class training feats its possible for a character

I wonder if those class training feats are the replacement for 3e-style multiclassing. I hope they're very flexible: I would love to play a fighter or ranger who has access to wizard rituals. I have always loved characters who are primarily fighters, but have non-combat magical powers. Characters like Vlad Taltos and any number of Roger Zelazny characters.

I agree in concept, but I have to argue with the comparison with Vlad. His witch abilities are, in D&D 4E terms, rituals. But he is also a sorceror and much of that is in-combat or at least quick. Do you remember when he summoned a second jhereg during a fight? I think he was breaking the rules.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Ugh! The death of magic schools is the first major 4E crimp in my exisitng homebrew. I had a zodiac-like set of demigods, each representing one of the schools. Back to the drawing board on that one...

Well... you could take the "Golden Wyvern"-approach and make specific spells with a certain style feat-assisted by some traditions/schools, no?

Cheers, LT.

 

[M.L. Martin]

I'm glad to see schools dead--they were a bit of flavor that I don't think was able to bear the weight hung on them starting in 2E, and especially with 3E's focus on both balance and flexibility. I think most of what the designers tried to do with them can be done with descriptors (for spells), and feats and class abilities (for specialist powers), with specialized caster classes for the stronger archetypes or the really focused sort.

 

[jester47]

I don't think enchantment should be nerfed for psi.
Psionics is a different way of delivering magic effects.
I think it would be cool to see an enchanter and a psion fight over the will of a crowd.
Don't get that if all the best stuff is psi.

 

[A'koss]

Spells are divided among at will (lesser power than a fighter’s melee attack), per encounter, per day (the really powerful stuffs, these are the most powerful abilities in the game) and rituals. Rituals cover magic item creation, and non-combat spell (divinations are prime examples).

Though we essentially knew this already, I think this a very good way to go. I wonder now how they'll handle the spells a character knows. Will they all be available to a wizard or will they limit the number you can have access to at any one time (a la Bo9S)...

Schools are dead, long live the implements: the orb, the staff and the wand (with others, such as the dagger, possible in later supplement). Staffs are for rays and cones, wands for long distance control, while orb stands for blasts, terrain control, and retributive and perception based effects.

I'm really on the fence with the idea of juggling various implements, though I am not sad to see the schools disappear. I know that they said that wizards don't actually require implements in order to cast spells, but I image the penalty for not will be great enough to motivate you to have them at all times.

Divinations, long range teleport, restorative effects (the cleric’s remove disease for example) are rituals.

I'm hoping that, by becoming rituals, divinations and teleport become far less a problem on a campaign level...

Feats don’t have class as a prerequisite. Race, level or skill training might be needed, but no class. You can steer your character wherever you want.
There are class training feats (Fighter training, Wizard training, Warlock training, etc.) that gives some power of that class to someone not in that class.

We know that multiclassing rules were in a serious state of flux not so long ago so this might not be what appears in the final version.

The important part is the paragon paths and epic destinies. They replace prestige classes. They are additional power/abilities, that you can choose once you hit 11th or 21st level. They are very much like prestige classes and battle captain, mystic theurge, weapon master, prince of knaves and cavalier are mentioned.
Epic destiny gives few but very powerful ability. Also it describes how you exit the world (seem like at level 30 you retire). You can become a demigod for example.

I'm pretty psyched about what they plan on doing here. Hopefully they'll toss us some tidbits here to see how this is being implemented.

Epic level game is much about slaying gods and clearing the Nine Hell (I made the last up). In the cleric section they muse about gods being redesigned, and one of their goals is, that they can be challenged by epic level characters. I cannot say that I like it.

This on the other hand I'm not keen on. I'd rather they produce a new book on how to run godly characters who operate on another level from mortals and have their own challenges.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Well... you could take the "Golden Wyvern"-approach and make specific spells with a certain style feat-assisted by some traditions/schools, no?

Perhaps. Still have to see what actually constitutes a "tradition". But from what we know right now they don't seem like fundamental distinctions in types of magic to me (and therefore ripe for personification in godlike entities) the way schools do.

 

[Joh]

I don't think enchantment should be nerfed for psi.
Psionics is a different way of delivering magic effects.
I think it would be cool to see an enchanter and a psion fight over the will of a crowd.
Don't get that if all the best stuff is psi.

Everything is shifting in 4e, and limiting what they are doing to what's been done is silly.

Psions as wizards with less salt, more pepper, is boring, in my honest opinion. This is a perfect chance for them to give Psionics a new feel. I personally think that ESP, Pyrokenesis, mind control and telepathy are much more fitting to the idea of a psion than summoning ectoplasmic goo to wash your bedding for you.

 

[Wepwawet]

WOW!

Love it all!
Especially the rituals.
Always wanted to have players doing rituals in my game (which already happened, but the details where very difficult to work, and very expensive for the players.)

 

[Gold Roger]

I like the stuff on wizards, especially focusing them on evocations and illusions.

The stuff on epic level is, well, I guess will not play much epic level anyway.

 

[delericho]

I wonder how Paizo are going to react to the death of schools - their Pathfinder setting seems to make them quite important.

For the rest of it - I don't like the nerfing of Enchantment. I really don't like the nerfing of Necromancy. I'm okay with Arcane Spell Failure going away, and don't mind the end of the schools as such, either. The movement of Divinations to ritual magic is a good thing.