More Deepwood Sniper goodness...

[Mistwell]

I don't think the intent of the DS bonus is to give you Daredevil-like radar sense of your targets location.

 

[Kai Lord]

If you have 0% Concealment, you're standing in front of someone with no obstructions in broad daylight. To an epic DWS, someone hiding in total darkness has the same game mechanics as someone in broad daylight. Does your DM make your characters have to guess where opponents are when they have no concealment and the sun is sparkling off of their rosy cheeks?

Does a Dragon with Blindsight suddenly destroy the very fabric of your games? Oh but Blindsight has range, you say, while the DWS's CR extends to line of sight. Sometimes its good to be the king, especially when supported by the letter of the rules.

 

[Crothian]

So, when one finds himself in the rules quagmire, one must look to other rules and rulings to find a similar situation.

True Strike. We're ignorreing the +20 bonus, it's the reduce all concealment part we are interested in. THe spell says

"Additionally, the character is not affected by the miss chance that applies to attacks against a concealed target."

That is exactly what the epic DWS has. Now, there was a Sage answer (and I know how much we love the Sage, but for simple rule clarifications he does an okay job) that said even with total concealment the attacker still has to guess where the target is.

Now, if only I can find that ruling.

 

[the Jester]

Err, a creature still has its concealment, it's the miss chance that's reduced. So, yes, he's still got to figure out where the enemy actually is.

 

[Kai Lord]

Okay, so the Deepwood Sniper is the master of "filling in the blanks" as long as he has a point of reference. This significantly changes my interpretation of the rule because it means that his Concealment Reduction ability is entirely vision based (which makes sense considering the ranges he operates at) opposed to having Concealment reduced through other fine-tuned senses.

Someone hides in the bushes. The DWS sees his finger through an open patch of foliage and determines that two feet to the left and up is the guy's head. He fires. If there is no opening in the foliage but he knows someone is there, he gets a picture in his mind of where he assumes the target to be hiding and fires unerringly at that position. Sound right?

So how is "guessing" determined in the rules. Like I said, I don't have the book handy. Is there anyway to improve your guesses? Listen checks?

Regardless, I still like that someone using Blur against a DWS in melee combat still has his Concealment reduced even if the DWS is defending himself with a sword.

 

[1337 h4xor]

If you have 0% Concealment, you're standing in front of someone with no obstructions in broad daylight. To an epic DWS, someone hiding in total darkness has the same game mechanics as someone in broad daylight. Does your DM make your characters have to guess where opponents are when they have no concealment and the sun is sparkling off of their rosy cheeks?

Does a Dragon with Blindsight suddenly destroy the very fabric of your games? Oh but Blindsight has range, you say, while the DWS's CR extends to line of sight. Sometimes its good to be the king, especially when supported by the letter of the rules.

lol letter of what rules? you ahve to be able to see something before you can atack it. That's a basic game mechanic. An invisible character doesn't have concealment he's invisible a dc 30 spot check will tell you where he is then you can shoot him and your deepwood sniper bonus reduces your miss chance. It does not give you the ability to see invisible or hidden people.

a hidden character has no concealment either, he's just not there to your vision a spot check beating his hide dc will reveal his location. Then if it turns out he's hiding behind a rock giving him 50% concealment voila you can shoot at him with a reduction in your miss chance but not before then.

the letter of the rules say he gets a reduction in miss chance. It does not say he can see invisible or hidden creatures. By your reasoning this ability lets him shoot red beams from his eyes that paint his targets like laser sights simply because it doesn't say that he can't...lol

 

[kreynolds]

Is there anyway to improve your guesses? Listen checks?

You can spot an active invisible creature, or a creature with total concealment, within 30 feet with a successful Spot check at DC 20. This doesn't tell you where they are, only that they are somewhere near. If the creature is standing still, the Spot DC is 30.

To pinpoint the creature, the DC is increased by an additional 20. So, to pinpoint the location of an active invisible (total concealment) creature would be a Spot check at DC 40. If the creature is standing still, the Spot DC goes up to 50.

I'm not sure if the Hide skill can be used (can't remember right now). But if it can, and the creature is actively hiding in either of these situations, add their Hide check roll to the total DC.

Don't have the DCs for listen in front of me right now though.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

Regardless, I still like that someone using Blur against a DWS in melee combat still has his Concealment reduced even if the DWS is defending himself with a sword.

actually, neither concealment reduction nor safe poison use specify what they can be used on.

all other abilities of the Sniper specify projectile weapons, so the hacked-a-blurred-guy-with-a-sword will work

 

[Kai Lord]

lol letter of what rules? you ahve to be able to see something before you can atack it. That's a basic game mechanic. An invisible character doesn't have concealment he's invisible a dc 30 spot check will tell you where he is then you can shoot him and your deepwood sniper bonus reduces your miss chance. It does not give you the ability to see invisible or hidden people.

Two mustard bottles are walking down the sidewalk, and one of them starts to fall behind. The first mustard bottle turns around and says, "Ketchup."

 

[kreynolds]

a dc 30 spot check will tell you where he is then you can shoot him

Actually, no. A 30 on your spot check will only tell you one of two things; 1) that an active invisible creature is nearby (this is 10 points over what is required) or 2) that an invisible creature is standing still nearby.

My previous post has more of the DCs listed there.