More Powerful NPC Classes

[el-remmen]

Now, I am not talking about warrior, aristocrat, adept, commoner and expert (even though I have my own house-ruled versions that brings aristocrat up to "normal" character class level, and gives the other classes some additional minor benefits (but also lowers the BAB rate for commoners and experts)), I am talking about other NPC classes of the type they use to print in DRAGON back in the 1E days (mostly, but some in the 2E days as well).

These classes, like the duelist, the bounty-hunter, the witch, a plethora of paladins (one for each alignment - like the lawful evil ILLRIGGER! (or something like that)) were never meant to be used as player characters, but were specifically NPC classes, and often they were more powerful than the PC classes at the same levels. The idea being they were to be foils for the PCs or fill necessary plot roles as needed by the DM - they didn't need to be balanced against any individual PC class.

What is the consensus on this method? (HA! As if there was ever a consensus on these boards!) I got to thinking about it because of unreason's review of the entire run of DRAGON (which I have been greatly enjoying) and because since in my 3E games I replaced clerics with 2E-like specialty priests (basically a custom class for each god based on the cleric model and using the turn undead mechanic for a variety of themed powers) I was detailing some priests of evil gods and realized for them to have the range of powers I wanted them to have without being such a high level as to be too difficult for the party I would have to make the class more powerful at the median levels.

Anyone use NPC classes of this type? For a while I was against such a thing, b/c I felt anything that was good for PCs had to be good for NPCs, but I have laxed on that kind of thing in my old age, and I figured since no player is ever going to be allowed to play an evil cleric in a game I run (for example) why not just go ahead and do it?

 

[smootrk]

I have never been a fan of the design concept of 'total balance or equality', so yes, I think the game can use a variety of classes that break from the PC model. If a situation presented where a PC of the special class was needed or desired, one could always tweak the XP chart for that class (like they did in the olden days).

I also enjoyed the Plethora of Paladins, and my favorite was the Paramander/Paramandyr Neutral ones. First a seeker of balance, and then second the slightly 'bent' slayer of alignment extremes. The Death Master comes to mind as another great one.

 

[Voadam]

I'd suggest checking out Mastering Iron Heroes. It has three NPC villain classes where you design to the desired CR instead of along a PC class design focus. There is a wicked sorcerer, demon knight type and one other.

Also Adamant's Modern Foe Factory and Minions of Mars have adapted the Spycraft minions rules to a d20 Modern base where you quickly generate NPC stats for their role then apply to a level varying base to provide instant NPCs tailored to the abilities you want them to have. Doesn't cover D&D spells but does do a lot of things like flying and poison etc.

 

[monboesen]

I'd suggest checking out Mastering Iron Heroes.

Consider this another vote for checking out the approach of villain classes. I don't use them exactly the way they are presented in Iron Heroes, but the very idea of simplified Villain classes with tables giving you level appropiate stats is great and for me very time saving.

Iron Heroes and 4e really opened my eyes to the advantages of pc's and npc's not being equal and not even following the same rules. Makes it so much easier to let npc's have the abilities/powers/spells (whatever you call it) that I want them to use.

 

[Scribble]

Iron Heroes... Yum.. Awesome game, but I still havern't gotten a chance to play it.

I've never been bothered by the idea of NPCs doing things players can't.

I look at classes as just one way to accomplish doing something. Just like you can build you own career in many difefrent ways. Some NPCs just managed to find another way of doing it.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Iron Heroes... Yum.. Awesome game, but I still havern't gotten a chance to play it.

I've never been bothered by the idea of NPCs doing things players can't.

It's a staple of fantasy fiction. Given that quite often heroes and villains in fantasy novels are allegories for two different things, it makes sense that they'd have different repertoires. Look at Conan. He was always fighting sorcerers, who were allegories for the corruption and decadence of civilized life; he himself was a reference to the "noble savage" ideal that came out of the 19th century, symbolizing purity in simplicity and (perhaps) combining it with a bit of self-sufficient Übermensch.

If you're trying to operate in genre for that sort of thing, it makes sense that the heroes would not usually be sorcerers, and Iron Heroes is designed to support that genre, by making PC spellcasters rare, and making spellcasting risky.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Well, while we're on IH villain classes, and since you're a fellow d20 devotee, there's always hong's take on them, for D&D: Dungeons and Dragons Silliness

Including variants, that's nine of the bastards right there.

 

[aurance]

I've never been bothered by the idea of NPCs doing things players can't.

Me too. NPCs can have whatever wacky tricks I want them to have, as long as 1) there's a good reason they are able to do them, 2) provides an appropriate challenge for PCs, and 3) fun is had by all.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Mmm...yes and no.

If you expect one villain to go up against four characters at once and be able to handle them, he'll need to have the power and actions of four characters all at once. Of course it would be unbalanced for any one PC to have this power (but it might be fair in a game with only one player, for instance, to have each PC combine to create some sort of temporary SUPER-CHARACTER like the summonings of later FF games).

If you expect a team of four villains to go up against four characters at once, then each should have the approximate power of one of those characters.

It's not about NPCs and PCs getting different treatment, really.

I'd have no problem with "villain classes" that are meant for one lone villain to face a party of adventurers, just like I'd have no problem with "hero classes" in a 1-player version of D&D that have the capacity of an entire party of adventurers, either.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I've never used full blown villain classes, per say, but I have made custom abilities or feats for NPCs that I would probably not ever hand out to a player character.