More questions about pesky undeads.

[Dark_Juggernaut]

In the case of my entangling exhalation, which stipulates in slow breath's case, if they're slowed they're entangled as well then I'd say they can't shake it off.

I think I'd simply give them free escape artist successes since gaseous stuff can slip through any crack. How does that sound?

 

[SnowHeart]

(This is why, as a DM, I hate Dragonfire Adept's, but anyway...)

I actually find Runestar's example to run counter to his point. To me, DR 10/magic implies the gaseous form is very hard to pin down without decent magic. That said, your last post confused me:

In the case of my entangling exhalation, which stipulates in slow breath's case, if they're slowed they're entangled as well then I'd say they can't shake it off.

For the entangling breath to work (I assume we're talking about the feat from Races of the Dragon), you have to do damage. The slow breath does no damage, so they're different and you can't use the entangling with the slow, so I'm not sure how anything is stipulated in "slow breath"... Not trying to be difficult, just trying to get onto the same page as you.

That said, I guess I would again go back to what I said before. If you go by raw, if you do damage, it is entangled. That is exactly what the Feat says. If the target is immune to the type of energy you're doing or takes no damage at all from a non-energy based breath weaponl, then it's not entangled. If it does take damage, it is entangled. As a DM, I find the feat overpowered (so also take this as full disclosure of some bias on my part), so I might be inclined to House Rule a gaseous form is able to slip out of it (maybe, as you say, with an escape artist check or something... maybe DC 10 + half damage) but that would not be RAW.

 

[Dark_Juggernaut]

You can use your breath weapon to create an entangling
mesh of energy.
Prerequisites: Dragonblood subtype, breath weapon.
Benefi t: When you use your breath weapon, you can
choose to enmesh all creatures in its area instead of producing
its normal effect. Your breath weapon deals only
half its normal damage; however, any creature that takes
damage from your breath weapon becomes entangled and
takes an extra 1d6 points of damage, of the same energy
type as normally dealt by your breath weapon, each round
at the start of your turn. This effect lasts for 1d4 rounds.
If your breath weapon doesn’t deal energy damage,
creatures damaged by the initial breath are still entangled
but don’t take additional damage on later rounds.

So what, that means if the damage is untyped or something? Maybe if it's ability score damage?

 

[Runestar]

I actually find Runestar's example to run counter to his point. To me, DR 10/magic implies the gaseous form is very hard to pin down without decent magic. That said, your last post confused me:

Not really. If a fighter could do 70 damage on a single hit, he still does 60 damage to the vampire in gaseous form even with a non-magical weapon. Unless you portray it as he somehow fanning his weapon so quickly that it dissipates the cloud (thereby disintegrating the vampire), this suggests the so-called gaseous cloud isn't wholly gas.

Or maybe this is just fantasy where you can in fact harm a ball of air by swinging a sword at it...

 

[Dark_Juggernaut]

Yeah, I didn't really address that comment cause I think they confused that with resistance (type)/10 which would reduce all (type) damage by 10. It's definitely not hard to get past DR 10/magic, but it's VERY helpful at keeping one alive.

 

[SnowHeart]

*snip*...any creature that takes
damage from your breath weapon becomes entangled and takes an extra 1d6 points of damage, of the same energy type as normally dealt by your breath weapon... *snip*

If your breath weapon doesn’t deal energy damage, creatures damaged by the initial breath are still entangled but don’t take additional damage on later rounds.

So what, that means if the damage is untyped or something? Maybe if it's ability score damage?

Ability score damage, sure, and doesn't Bahamut/Tiamat also do some sort of other kind of damage as well as energy? But it has to do damage, and slow does not.

Yeah, I didn't really address that comment cause I think they confused that with resistance (type)/10 which would reduce all (type) damage by 10.

No, they didn't confuse it. I understand the counterpoint, but I'm still sticking with my view. I relate it back to the mechanics of AD&D 2nd and figure 10/magic is roughly the equivalent of needing a +2 or +3 weapon. Is it some awesome, powerful, epic thing? No, of course not, and is it like incorporeality where you need magic to even attempt a hit? No. But it's still going to protect you against 99% of the schmuks in the universe who swing their butterknives and pitchforks at you. (And, if you're a fighter doing 70 points of damage in a single blow, chances are you already have at least a +1 weapon.)

 

[Dark_Juggernaut]

Well, I agree it makes sense that giving up half damage (and a feat) to entangle would hardly be a drawback if you don't do any damage to be halved. I'm not sure which would be more useful now Half damage entangling breath or a slow breath...guess I'll entangle then spam slow while they burn