Morpheus and DnD

[TommyTutone]

Re: ...

I am fully aware of how much time and money it takes to make a software game...Dont presume me ignorant to prop up your own arguments...

If you have been following my whole argument...I clearly wrote that i am not prepared to pay $80 bucks for a game that has all but ONE hour of gameplay and then its off to the delete bin...

If a company or anyone spends three years on a game and
i have to remove it after an hours worth of play...then that company deserves to go under and out of business...

Also you did write later in your post that you do dload mp3's
So i dont think you can cry poor when you take money from recording artists mouths

the pot calling the kettle black

We all have our reasons for piracy (in all its forms)

I still stand by what i said earlier...

The Recording Industry and Software/Game Industry needs a good hard long look at itself with its practises and what it gets away with the crap they shove down our throats...and the prices they charge for that crap...

There are a few good Software companies that do give value for money...but unfortunatly they do suffer for the sins of the many...

Oh well thats capitalism for you


Harlequin

So it is wrong for us to NOT call you ignorant because you are fully aware of the effort that goes into software, books, music, etc.

Is it okay then to call you ignorant because you are not smart enough to research products before you buy them? Why did you purchase a game with one hour's gameplay on it without first asking friends, the internet, checking magazines their opinions of said title?

I agree that companies that offer shoddy products should go out of business, but it is hardly a justification for stealing said products. To expand the thought, if you have been burned by a company once for shoddy material, why do you continue to show interest in said company by stealing other material of theirs?

I do bet you feel really good about yourself thinking you are the big, bad Robin Hood sticking it to 'the man' by taking away from their money-grubbing throats. Perhaps you can explain that to the folks laid off from WotC?

 

[RangerWickett]

You know what? I hate piracy, but I'm typing this as I listen to a burned CD of Sheryl Crow my girlfriend gave me as a gift. I'm in a quandary. I like the music, but I can't afford to buy the CDs. I do feel guilty about this, but I also like the music.

I don't pirate software, books, or movies, though my roommate does, and I get on his case about it. But I'm honestly not one to talk. I have 300 mp3s on my computer, of which I only have CDs for maybe 50. Now some I do honestly rationalize because I own the movies for some of the soundtracks I downloaded, and the video games for some other soundtracks. Some songs I have no idea how I'd get otherwise (things like Japanese pop my friends send to me, or songs by a . . . Swedish (?) band named Carramba), and a few songs my brother has on CD, but which I don't have access to because he's at home and I'm away at college.

But for a lot of them, I just took them. I only want some music from an album, not all of them, so I don't feel right spending $15 for just two songs. Is there some service where I can pay to download CD tracks bit by bit? I'd love to do that, but right now, I'm faced with a quandary. I know that morally, I'm doing the wrong thing, but I also think that the music industry is not doing all it could to be convenient customers.

Y'know what, though? A good person does not do wrong unto others simply to balance the books. Right now, I'm making a resolution to get rid of my pirated mp3s within one month, which should be enough time for me to cut back on my food expenditure and buy the CDs I actually want. It's the right thing to do. If my family owns the CD, or my girlfriend (who I plan to marry and make part of my family, God willing), then I don't feel any qualms keeping the music, but you can even buy video game soundtracks online. It'll suck for my music variety, but it's the right thing to do.

Remember that. Your piracy won't drive prices down on music, or game books (hell, I'm going to be seeing a 10 cent profit per print copy of Wild Spellcraft that sells, so don't bitch about expensive game products). Instead, just have moral strength and do what is right.

 

[eXodus]

Instead, just have moral strength and do what is right.

my god. now that is priceless. i want that on a t-shirt.




seriously though.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

so i kind of support the fileshare as preview point of view. as teflon billy mentioned earlier, alot of companies put out crap with tons of errors in it and then charge an arm and a leg. (then you have ryan dancey saying that rpg products as a whole are UNDERPRICED(?))...which all leads to lots of people who now like to preview stuff first before buying. i can see both sides, but if anything this might have the effect of forcing companies to put out better product. if word gets out that a product is a dog before lots of people make the mistake of buying it, those companies producing it may be forced to do better next time.

RPGs are underpriced. Take a serious look at the industry and tell me otherwise. Get a print quote for a hardcover 200 page book and a print run of 3,000. Now slap on the distributor and vendor's cut (which ammounts to an %800 to %1,000 markup). Compare that to,say, a college textbook of similar size and quality. But everyone tries to cut corners by having a friend edit the product for free and things like that (though how WotC has typos is beyond me).

You say filesharing will force people to do better. Why? If people are distributing a book for free how will that increase the number sold and increase profits? You talk about "word getting out". What you mean like reviews? Like on this very review site? Where reviewers review legal copies? That kind of word? The solution you are looking for (reviews) currently exists in the industry and it is availble for free.

Incidentally, I can only see how filesharing helps the larger companies. The smaller ones can't afford to take the hit and if they are on a borderline existence (as most RPG companies are) then they will go under, leaving the big guy to stand.

 

[UD]

Re: ...

I am fully aware of how much time and money it takes to make a software game...Dont presume me ignorant to prop up your own arguments...

If you have been following my whole argument...I clearly wrote that i am not prepared to pay $80 bucks for a game that has all but ONE hour of gameplay and then its off to the delete bin...

If a company or anyone spends three years on a game and
i have to remove it after an hours worth of play...then that company deserves to go under and out of business...

Also you did write later in your post that you do dload mp3's
So i dont think you can cry poor when you take money from recording artists mouths

the pot calling the kettle black

We all have our reasons for piracy (in all its forms)

I still stand by what i said earlier...

The Recording Industry and Software/Game Industry needs a good hard long look at itself with its practises and what it gets away with the crap they shove down our throats...and the prices they charge for that crap...

There are a few good Software companies that do give value for money...but unfortunatly they do suffer for the sins of the many...

Oh well thats capitalism for you


Harlequin

A - read reviews, it saves you a lot of cash that way...
B - I rip my own CDs, CDs that I have bought. I dont share the MP3s with anyone else, but its still illegal to have coppies of tehm in the UK. I have never d.l. a MP3 which may constitute as illegal.
C - If I, a student, can get away without piracy living on a measly £3995 a year, then you have *no* escuse for piracy. ever.

 

[Aaron L]

I download mp3s, because I don't care about rich record companies becoming less rich. I don't download RPG books, because I do care about struggling RPG companies, who make something I love, and I don't want them to go out of business.

 

[King_Stannis]

....Incidentally, I can only see how filesharing helps the larger companies. The smaller ones can't afford to take the hit and if they are on a borderline existence (as most RPG companies are) then they will go under, leaving the big guy to stand.

i'd like to think that if any company, big or small, produces a good product, they will thrive - filesharing or no filesharing.

as for reviews, it sounds weird, but i trust the word of mouth that goes on in threads rather than the formal reviews. in fact, the only reviewer i've ever trusted was rick swan, who i think was last seen on a milk carton.

as for RPG's being underpriced, i've heard the arguments from ryan dancey himself and he makes a good case for his side. but my counter is: the price for RPG's is exactly what the market will bear. bitch and moan all you want, let's face it - do you really think your average college kid or 13 year old is gonna shell out $50 for a player's handbook? or should i say will ENOUGH of those folks buy at that price. of course not. so when, over time, the free market decides that products x, y and z sell for $a, $b and $c, it is not "underpriced". it is not "overpriced". it is exactly what the market will bear.

ryan errored when he tried to compare the entertainment value of movies to rpg's which, IMHO, can't be compared due to nebulous things like the value of talking with your friends about the movie you just saw and replay value on cable television. Colonel.Hardisson gave a very good rebuttal to ryan on this point.

think that covers it...i'm not promoting theft, but if a person buys what they download i see no harm. and if a person downloads a piece of crap, hopefully he deletes it and tells others what a piece of crap it is.

 

[Hoju]

Here is my logic ( or lack thereof).

I use Kazaa for: music,games,2ed AD&D products and tv shows.

For music I'll download one or two songs from an album. (Britney Spears for example). If I want the entire album I'll buy it (Example: Garbage's newest one).

For games I download it to try it out: Example The new Star Wars game (didn't like it/deleted). Civ 3 liked it and plan on getting it very soon.

2nd Ed AD&D, I have quite a lot of pdf's, and to be honest if I ever even look at half of them I'll be suprised. I do not like pdf's as a whole because I like the book in hand. I purchased Monte's BOEM's sight unseen based on reviews and the fact that it was reasonable to print out.(other group members also bought it ), a friend in the group bought Wild Spellcraft and e-mailed it to me for an opinion, until that point I was going to purchase it but I felt it was pretty poor so I didn't. So 3rd PDF's i have bought are not shared, the only other 3rd ed PDF's I have are defenders of the faith and sword and fist (and only to browse the feats, since I have no other use for the books). All other 3rd stuff I have in hardcopy.

Tv shows: I d/l futurama and simpsons episodes since there is no other way for me to watch older re-runs (that I want to actually watch). Once they release season 2 of the simpsons and season 1 of futurama on DVD's those episodes will be gone from my computer.

I have quite a bit of music in my filesharing program and all 2nd ed pdf's are shared. Some adult material is there, games I've D/l and not liked and a few different TV shows (BTW you can D/L most of the old D&D cartoons also, tell me where else you can access those?).

So yes, call me a thief, but call me a selective one.

Edit: Thinking about it, poor is the wrong term for Wild Spellcraft, it didn't have any application in our games (though we were looking to add wild magic)

 

[Replicant]

A proposition ....

Hey, all you filethieves (sorry, SHARERS) out there ... how about a little proposition.

Anyone out there anticipating the new Cthulu D20 release? How 'bout I buy it, scan it, and give you all the link to download it for free? Our little "community" here could benefit greatly by getting a new, wonderful game for $0! One person pays, thousands "share" and we're all happy.

What's that, you're wondering about the game's creator, the guy who poured a year of his life and thousands of hours of creativity into the finished product? Screw him -- he works for THE MAN.

Besides, I can't see the WOTC layoffs from my backyard. They don't exist in my nice, cozy little universe.

 

[Teflon Billy]

I would happily download CoC from anywhere it was posted. If it was any good, I would then purchase it from my local shop (I can't be bothered to run copies myself, and prefer a nicely bound book to a bunch of photcopies in a duotang.

If it was no good, then no harm done.