[Mor's End Discussion] Time to open shop!

[Lalato]

Fauna of Enheim...

I was thinking about the cattle ranchers... and I wanted to make the cattle something a bit exotic. I had been researching exotic mountain animals for another project when I cam across this link...

http://www.karakol.su/animals_of_kyrgyzstan.htm

I think Marco Polo Sheep, also known as Argali, would work well for this. The male sheep have very impressive horns that could yield yet another cottage industry for Mor's End...

Here's an image of Marco Polo Sheep...
http://members.tripod.com/EAPWS/ES_Argali.html

Just for info... Marco Polo Sheep can produce milk, wool, and meat.

--sam

 

[Lalato]

I've been looking at the sheer numbers it would take to support a city this size using Medieval Demographics Made Easy...

http://www.rpglibrary.org/utils/meddemog/

Anyway... Even if the city's food supplies are supplemented by caravans, it looks like we need at least some farm land along with the cattle.

Perhaps there are a couple of farming communities on the other side of the lake?

Right now the home grown food is:
Cattle and Fish

We will likely need some grain and vegetables grown locally somewhere...

The lake might also yield some kelp-like plant that when stewed is healthy and nutritious like spinach...

Anyone out there have ideas on this?
--sam

 

[Krug]

Re: Fauna of Enheim...

I was thinking about the cattle ranchers... and I wanted to make the cattle something a bit exotic. I had been researching exotic mountain animals for another project when I cam across this link...

http://www.karakol.su/animals_of_kyrgyzstan.htm

I think Marco Polo Sheep, also known as Argali, would work well for this. The male sheep have very impressive horns that could yield yet another cottage industry for Mor's End...

Here's an image of Marco Polo Sheep...
http://members.tripod.com/EAPWS/ES_Argali.html

Just for info... Marco Polo Sheep can produce milk, wool, and meat.

--sam

Hmm... intriguing. I'd say go for it. Perhaps this trade isn't done within the city, but in the vicinity, and villagers come to Mor's End to trade and sell off their product.

And yes, there'd definitely need to be farmland. Otherwise it'd be too easily to starve out the city.

 

[Conaill]

Grumble, grumble...

Now that I finally have gotten my sourcebooks in the same location (I.e. the "Magical Medieavl Society" and my DMG), it seems like there may be some errors in MMS's demography tables. I asked for more info on Expeditious Retreat's bullitin boards, but meanwhile here's what I came up with using the DMG's demographics rule on pages 139-140

The highest level NPC of any give class is given by dX + community modifier, where the community modifier for "Small City" is equal to "+6 (roll twice)".

For example, for Rogues, the highest level NPC would be given by "1d8 +6 (roll twice)". In other words, there are two Rogues of levels Rog7-14. For example, one Rog9 and one Rog12.

The number of lower-level NPC's of that class is given by the following rule: "if the highest-level character is 2nd level or above, assume that for each such character there are two of half that level." For example, for our Rog12 there would be two Rog6, four Rog3, and so on. If you get into fractional levels things get a little ambiguous, but the example in the DMG seems to indicate that you round up at .5, and keep using the fractions for the next levels. In total, starting with the Rog9 and Rog12 as highest-level Rogues, we get:

1 x Rog 12
1 x Rog9
2 x Rog6
2 x Rog5 (4.5 rounded up)
4 x Rog3
4 x Rog2 (2.25 rounded down) + 8 x Rog2 (1.5 rounded up)
8 x Rog1 (1.125 rounded down) + 16 Rog1 (.75 rounded up)

Here are the numbers for the other classes (I picked some reasonable values for the die rolls, e.g. 2 and 5 on "1d6 roll twice"):

Paladin, Ranger (1d3+6, roll twice):
1x9, 1x7, 2x5, 2x4, 8x2, 16x1

Aristocrat, Barbarian, Monk, Sorceror, Wizard (1d4+6, twice):
1x9, 1x8, 2x5, 2x4, 8x2, 16x1

Bard, Cleric, Druid, Adept (1d6+6, twice):
1x11, 1x8, 2x6, 2x4, 4x3, 4x2, 16x1

Fighter, Rogue, Warrior (1d8+6 or 2d4+6, twice):
1x12, 1x9, 2x6, 2x5, 4x3, 12x2, 24x1

Expert (3d4+6, twice):
1x15, 1x12, 2x8, 2x6, 4x4, 4x3, 16x2, 32x1

Commoner (4d4+6, twice):
1x18, 1x14, 2x9, 2x7, 4x5, 4x4, 16x2, 32x1

(The rest of the population is filled up with 91% Com1, 5% War1, 3% Exp1, 0.5% Ari1 and 0.5% Adp1.)

The highest level you can roll for any PC class is 14 (on 1d8+6), so I would suggest we make Lady Kelvin a 14th level NPC.

These numbers also give us guidelines for the "Government" thread. For example, the head of the Mages Guild will be a 9th level Wizard or Sorceror, and the city only has a total of 30 Wizards and 30 Sorcerors (and most of those are lvl 1!) On the other hand, the head of the Thieves Guild is likely to be a 12th level Rogue, and there are a total of 48 Rogues in the city.

With respect to the NPC thread, we probably want to restrict "free for all" submission to a certain level, and have an actual contest for the highest-level ones (probably in cooperation with the Goverment thread). I think lvl 5 max is a reasonable limit for the NPC thread.

[Edit: cross-posted to NPC and goverment thread]

 

[Conaill]

PS: Before we put anything into stone, we need to be certain that we are all comfortable with this size of city. Personally, I would prefer Mor's End to be a Metropolis or at least a Large City (12,000-25,000). That would allow us to have some fairly high-level NPC's (up to lvl 17), which makes the city scaleable for higher-level adventures as well. Besides, it sounds like the Geography thread would like to have a larger city as well.

This is pretty much our LAST CHANCE to change something as fundamental as this. I can easily recalculate the numbers I gave above, and I assume Buttercup could red her numbers for the different types of businesses as well. But once we start weaving these statistics into the fabric of the city, it'll be too late to reverse any of this!

 

[The Grey Dwarf]

I've been looking at the sheer numbers it would take to support a city this size using Medieval Demographics Made Easy...
http://www.rpglibrary.org/utils/meddemog/
Anyway... Even if the city's food supplies are supplemented by caravans, it looks like we need at least some farm land along with the cattle.
--sam

On the map, there's a good patch of farmland to the north, between the city and the hills. (Ok, maybe I should work on that symbol )

 

[Steverooo]

The Dweller Below...

I put forth the name "Shubboth", reminiscent of both HPL's Shoggoth and Shub Niggurath. No details, just a name... (I'm thinking Ooze with a Fiendish Template, though)

 

[Lalato]

I don't mind if the city is larger. I think a city of about 15,000 is definitely workable... and if we're going to make that change... now is the time to do it.

Regarding food for a city of 15,000

If we were to use the numbers from Medieval Demographics Made Easy... Enheim would have to have approximately 333 villages with about 150,000 residents to support the 15,000 people in the city of Mor's End.

Without a doubt, the food supply will have to be magically aided so we can limit the number of people living in Enheim. With magic, I think we can definitely decrease the number of villagers significantly...

--sam

 

[Conaill]

If we were to use the numbers from Medieval Demographics Made Easy... Enheim would have to have approximately 333 villages with about 150,000 residents to support the 15,000 people in the city of Mor's End.

I think that assumes that the city is supported purely by agriculture. Mor's End could get a lot of its food from the lake, plus the rest through trade (so those 333 villages don't have to be within Enheim!)

For a primary staple, we can say that there is a nutritious but bland seaweed growing in the lake. Much more efficient source of food than fishing alone...

 

[Wolv0rine]

Re: Re: Fauna of Enheim...

Hmm... intriguing. I'd say go for it. Perhaps this trade isn't done within the city, but in the vicinity, and villagers come to Mor's End to trade and sell off their product.

And yes, there'd definitely need to be farmland. Otherwise it'd be too easily to starve out the city.

Perhaps just outside of the city, along the major roads, there is an area where smaller traders (farmers, shephards, single craftsmen, etc) ply their wares in some informal 'market row' or something. Just from these sheep you could have people selling meat, raw wool, finshed bolts of cloth, clothing made of it, raw horn, carved horn art, weapon handles carved of it, weapons crafted entirely OF it, maybe even some forms of armor. I'm sure someone will try to sell horn-powder aphrodisiacs.