Most powerful feat ever?

KingCrab said:
It depends on what you're playing. For most classes, yes that is the case. For some classes (say a wildshape focused druid who generally can't use items in wildshape anyway) it does make sense.

I see VoP as a roleplaying flair. It is powerful at low levels, not so powerful at mid-levels and underpowered at high levels where gear counterbalances pretty much anything. And even this is DM-dependant; in low-magic settings, VoP will likely makemore of a difference than if you play per DMG WPL. As for the feats you gain... yeah, nice, but none too awesome. It's a style... ever considered playing a VoP cleric? A VoP fighter?

An VoP is not "interesting" for concepts who do not depend on gear (wildshapers, incorporeals...): it is POWERGAMING.
 

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Kat' said:
I see VoP as a roleplaying flair. It is powerful at low levels, not so powerful at mid-levels and underpowered at high levels where gear counterbalances pretty much anything. And even this is DM-dependant; in low-magic settings, VoP will likely makemore of a difference than if you play per DMG WPL. As for the feats you gain... yeah, nice, but none too awesome. It's a style... ever considered playing a VoP cleric? A VoP fighter?

Nope. It doesn't work for most classes. I admit.

Kat' said:
An VoP is not "interesting" for concepts who do not depend on gear (wildshapers, incorporeals...): it is POWERGAMING.

I just like to optimize things, maybe I took too much math as an undergraduate.

To be fair, Wildshapers can try to get around the magical item limitations by other means. There are clasps you can buy that let you sort of take one item along with you for the transformation. There are other possibilities. VoP is just one way to try to get around the magic item limitation.
 

Kat' said:
I see VoP as a roleplaying flair. It is powerful at low levels, not so powerful at mid-levels and underpowered at high levels where gear counterbalances pretty much anything. And even this is DM-dependant; in low-magic settings, VoP will likely makemore of a difference than if you play per DMG WPL. As for the feats you gain... yeah, nice, but none too awesome. It's a style... ever considered playing a VoP cleric? A VoP fighter?

An VoP is not "interesting" for concepts who do not depend on gear (wildshapers, incorporeals...): it is POWERGAMING.

You say that like it's a bad thing...

A Druid with VoP and the variant Shapeshift class ability (PHB II) would rock...
 

Stratovarius said:
The Peerless Archer prestige class from the Silver Marches book grants this. It's called Power Shot. Level 2 of the class, maybe. Fairly obscure book though.

Even if a DM permitted it's use in 3.5, Power Shot isn't quite as bad as it was in 3.0. Since you don't have Bow and Arrow Bonuses stacking. Which could be another +5 to hit and thus making the Power Shot more usable for hitting a medium to high AC.
 

The Defiling Feat in Dragon #351, when used with Noonan's rules for defiling in Dragon #315 allows 20th level mages to cast 19th level spells. Now Divine Metamagic can match that, but you have to put more work into it with Extra Turning Feats to get to that point. And the wizard could do this 8 times a day before he would become a t'liz by assuming the taint.
 

Kat' said:
I see VoP as a roleplaying flair. It is powerful at low levels, not so powerful at mid-levels and underpowered at high levels where gear counterbalances pretty much anything. And even this is DM-dependant; in low-magic settings, VoP will likely makemore of a difference than if you play per DMG WPL. As for the feats you gain... yeah, nice, but none too awesome. It's a style... ever considered playing a VoP cleric? A VoP fighter?

Considering that a VoP character can use simple non-magical weapons and they can carry a spell component pouch, that opens possibilities. There is a short blurb about VoP characters borrowing expensive components and an option for using XP in exchange for gp costs of expensive components, nothing states or even implies that Poverty characters cannot carry expensive components if they are strictly that: spell components.

I know one or more of you stated that "numbers have been crunched" and that it falls apart if the DM adheres to wealth by level numbers, but I still don't think that VoP characters fall that far behind (if at all). By 20th level, they are considered to have the equivalent of +5 weapons that are also good-aligned for DR (on any weapon they use...not just a single item), +10 armor bonus with no Dex/check penalties and better than the Invulnerability feature, Ring of Sustenance (trade the sleeping bit for not needing to breathe), Ring of Protection +3, Amulet of Natural Armor +2, Cloak of Resistance +3, Ring of Mind Shielding (3rd ring, btw), Ring of Universal Elemental Resistance (not Epic, but detailed in the ELH) (4th ring, now), Ring of Freedom of Movement (5th ring, but I think other items do the same thing), Ring of Regeneration (and...6th ring), Gem of Seeing (that does not need to be held and is always on), and finally...four ability boost items (+2, +4, +6, and +8 (Epic)).

Even if we were to break all the prices down and compare them to character equivalent value....compare 760,000 of wealth at 20th level to the 640,000 gp value item that would provide the +8 bonus to an ability score and a +5/+5 Quarterstaff for 100,000 gp (to say nothing of additional weapons the character may have or use). And then keep going with the other items.

All that from two feats (including the Sacred Vow prerequisite). Oh yeah...those two feats get you a potential 10 BONUS feats from the Exalted list. Wow.

Straight-classing provides a number of possibilities, including a few that are normally "equipment-dependant." Special mounts are still possible with VoP, so Paladins with those 10 free exalted feats are quite nice. Almost any of the core spellcasters work very well, but wizards wouldn't, because of needing to keep a spellbook. Start into prestige classes, and things really get crazy: mystic theurge, duelist, eldrich knight, and...well...about anything that does not require preparing spells from a spellbook.

(I didn't do this long post to be argumentative about the point....just got on a roll, analyzing the feat on this lazy Saturday afternoon)
 

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