D&D General Mounted Archers

Reinforcing why, for much of history, cavalry was a rich man's game.
Ya know, it is interesting the difference between cultures where horses that are fit for war are an extreme minority and thus exceptionally expensive, vs cultures like the mongols that fielded hordes of light cavalry on wellbred and well trained horses.

seems like you basically have to center your society on the horse in order to accomplish that?
 

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Ya know, it is interesting the difference between cultures where horses that are fit for war are an extreme minority and thus exceptionally expensive, vs cultures like the mongols that fielded hordes of light cavalry on wellbred and well trained horses.

seems like you basically have to center your society on the horse in order to accomplish that?
Horses were very different. Golden Horde used steppe ponies which are 120-140 cm tall at withers and weight 250-350kg. Knights in full mail harness used destriers which were 150-170cm tall and weighted 500-650kg. One is bred for self sufficiency and endurance other is for strength and shock combat ( horses were as much as weapon as a lance versus infantry). 700kg of flesh and steel in full charge can do some serious harm when it crashes into something.
 

Horses were very different. Golden Horde used steppe ponies which are 120-140 cm tall at withers and weight 250-350kg. Knights in full mail harness used destriers which were 150-170cm tall and weighted 500-650kg. One is bred for self sufficiency and endurance other is for strength and shock combat ( horses were as much as weapon as a lance versus infantry). 700kg of flesh and steel in full charge can do some serious harm when it crashes into something.
I mean, yeah, they still ate way more than a human and need more care than any human older than 9 years old.

Now compare Beduin horses, famous for speed and fearlessness, and raised in a harse land where water is an especially highly valued resource.

Either way, you have to center your society on such animals in order to center your military strategy on the use of them.
 

A knight with a lance who misses is going to be one who gets dragged off his horse, and stabbed multiple times by his group of foes.

Imho, knight with lance is great vs other knight with lance, or in a line charging against another line of knights with lances or against a line of infantry (really good, unless said infantry also had pikes or lances dug in). But in most D&D combats, pretty useless after initial first round. And that's assuming a wide open field. Once we get into most combat settings of underground small rooms, or forest clearings, or mountain paths carved onto cliff-sides - I'd say mounted knight with lance is not a great PC archetype.
Too bad Overrun didn't get carried over to 5E, that would make mounts frightening (especially if coupled with Ride-by). Calvary charges were more about breaking through or overrunning lines than skewering a single individual with a shishkabob. Once the line was broken, your infantry can follow up through the breaks in the ranks and rout an enemy that's essentially lost its composure.

Also, I think most people tend to think of jousting lances vs. field lances - the latter of which were often little more than spears. Lances/spears often broke on the initial charge, so after that initial hit, you're either pulling a backup lance or switching to something like a flail or horseback sword on your next pass. Where mounted warriors would get in trouble was if they didn't make a clean break-thru pass - one person on a mount in close fray is an easy target to get pulled down - especially with polearms among the ranks that were designed to do just that.
 

My knight uses the lance at first (one-handed with shield), then switches to his battleaxe or mace in melee. I was pretty intentional in not picking up a +1 Lance because it's a sometimes weapon.
Then there are all the times we fight dismounted... but when mounted, advantage on melee attacks against creatures smaller than my mount is pretty sweet.
 

Mounted combat (ranged or melee) in D&D is great right up until someone lobs a fireball at your 7th level party and all the 19hp horses die and then suddenly you're not a mounted party after all. Ask my 12th level paladin how often his steed lasts past the first round of combat some time.

What? You didn't cast Warding Bond? Or Aid? Heroism? (Those last 2 can apply to both of you at the same time with one casting each) Get the Inspiring Leader feat to grant bonus hit points because they understand common? Or Mounted combat to take full advantage of the aura bonus to saves?

We layered defenses on our companions. Magic items, like potions of heroism and firebreathing were often given to steeds. They are movement boosters, a flanker who knew exactly what you were going to do via psychic link, they haul gear and they can help notice threats. They spread out incoming damage and dish out damage of their own.

Of course, we also had an Ancient paladin, so his steed at 7th got Resistance to spells. And the Bard learned Greater Steed at 10th, and then made scrolls of it for the pal10 and cleric9/pal1. So....beefy steeds. We got our steeds up to 100hp there at around 18th level, iirc.
 
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What? You didn't cast Warding Bond? Or Aid? Heroism? (Those last 2 can apply to both of you at the same time with one casting each) Get the Inspiring Leader feat to grant bonus hit points because they understand common? Or Mounted combat to take full advantage of the aura bonus to saves?

We layered defenses on our companions. Magic items, like potions of heroism and firebreathing were often given to steeds. They are movement boosters, a flanker who knew exactly what you were going to do via psychic link, they haul gear and they can help notice threats. They spread out incoming damage and dish out damage of their own.
Um, no?

Temp hp from different sources don't stack so your hp total only benefits from whichever one of Inspiring Leader, Heroism, Aid, or the potion of Heroism gives you the most, and that's not going to help a lot. Aid only gives a tiny amount of temp hp by level 10 standards unless you upcast heavily, and Heroism only helps if your mount can somehow survive a full round of combat without dying flat-out. Oh, and it requires concentration - is this really what you're choosing to use your only concentration slot on, especially your bard or your cleric9/paladin1 who could otherwise be throwing 5th level spells around? And the potion of heroism is a Rare item and they're not cheap or widely available at that level or most levels, it's certainly not something you can routinely rely on.

Mounted Combatant does legit help (the ability to force attacks to target you rather than the mount, especially), but once you're up at level 10 or so, spells are still going to crush any regular mount or non-Greater steed. It sounds like your entire party was built and optimised and your spells chosen around mounted combat and steeds. Hey, and that's fine if that's your bag. But having to do all that just so your mount isn't a liability isn't really an advertisement for how well the RAW work.
 

Um, no?

Temp hp from different sources don't stack so your hp total only benefits from whichever one of Inspiring Leader, Heroism, Aid, or the potion of Heroism gives you the most, and that's not going to help a lot.

First, Aid raises your max hit points, its not temp hit points. So it stacks with temp hp. Plus healing "renews" it, so its not just hp now, it can be +5hp/fight throughout an adventuring day. And one Aid benefits 3x targets, so its way more efficient than it looks, especially on summons that instantly vanish at 0hp.

Second, Warding Bond is a a damage sharing between caster and target. The caster and target split the damage the target receives. So again, overlaps with temp hit points, and in some ways can amplify them as one attack applies against both the target's and caster's temp hp.

Leadership's temp hp lasts all day (or until you take a rest) and costs no resources other than time. Which means it provides protection from ambushes. At 4th level its 7ish hp, which on a 19hp horse can be enough to survive like 40% of fireballs even if they fail the save. At 10th it's ~14hp, which is almost double. Oh wait, cast Aid and the horse has ~38hp, which is double!

Then, when those are gone, you layer on other more transient and resource intensive defenses, like heroism and potions.

Heroism does require concentration but as it provides bonus hp to both paladin and mount each round (yay spell sharing!) it has a higher net benefit than at first glance. Paladins at 6th level should have pretty solid con saves when the aura kicks inso the concentration check is plausible. And again, it keeps an ally from going "poof" at 0hp.

is this really what you're choosing to use your only concentration slot on, especially your bard or your cleric9/paladin1 who could otherwise be throwing 5th level spells around?

To your point earlier about temp hp stacking, concentration spells aren't needed until after the Leadership hit points are gone. Not every fight should open with a fireball. Many times those ~14hp (~19 with aid) would last through the initial "tussle with guards" fights, even in tier2.

The cleric9/Pal1 wasn't a mounted combatant. They were a demon-banisher who has a griffon mount via an expensive scroll. Leadership+Aid turned a 59hp steed into a 79hp steed. That survives most ambushes, and the slayer would dismount and let the steed retreat to protect against flankers or rescue people by pulling them out of combat. Add a zero-concentration 1st level Sanctuary and the steed was pretty durable, surviving multiple encounters/adventures per scroll.

The Paladin would vary between mounted and not. In the window between scrolls and having Greater Steed at 13th, the greater mount was more a way to get to enemies fast and then dismount, because scrolls are expensive. At 13th it was a lot more Leeroy Jenkins, as an 82hp steed is extra durable bolstered by mounted combat so melee attacks don't even hit the mount. Plus it could be resummoned later without a pricey scroll.

The Bard would mostly rely on range and mobility; drop a concentration spell like Hypnotic Pattern and retreat at velocity to cover. In combat the mount would get the first Inspiration to help it survive spells. At 13th the bard would share Eyebite, which turns the target's eyes black and lets them use their action to inflict a curse-like effect. Doing that twice a round made the spell extra useful, though once a target saved they were immune to both. Draconic Transformation was super fun when there were two breath weapons per round coming from the sky.

And as for "building around steeds", yeah, a bit. They are an expensive resource but also a useful resource. It makes sense to maintain them. By the same token, the same things that keep the steed alive also keep the squishier PCs alive. Leadership and Aid are virtually a +4 stat boost to Con, giving level+cha+5 hp and both affect multiple targets per use. That's a non-trivial boost to either give the squishies a higher floor or raise the ceiling on the meatwalls as those temp+bonus hps are like healing spells cast in advance.

The tactics become ingrained and expand. Is the rogue the only one with a chance of getting a mcguffin? Well, to be safe, let's cast Sanctuary and Warding Bond on top of Invis since we have them prepared. If things go sideways, the rogue has a real chance of surviving to flank the guardian for sneak attacks while we close (rapidly). Alternately, we do something similar for the paladin and have him grapple the unkillable (without the mcguffin) monster, letting the rest of us dash by unmolested, then we throw some short-lived nerfing spells to let the paladin mount up and flee.

Mounted combat IRL requires a lot of dedicated skill and equipment. Aside from saddles and weapons (that should match, a lancers saddle will drive a mongol insane and vice versa) you need war horses that are trained not to freak out when someone screams in their face. I owned horses for about 2 decades and leaves blowing in the wind can panic them. Realistically, non-war horses are a huge detriment in a fight as they should panic, buck, and rear at sword-on-shield, shouting and spells going off.

But the game mostly ignores all the downsides of mundane horses and makes you do some work to get the benefits.
 

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