Move Silently in Combat

[dreaded_beast]

If a player was using the Hide skill to move to different hiding places during combat, would they need to use the Move Silent skill?

For background, please check out the Hiding in Combat thread.

 

[jgsugden]

You can't move between hiding places with the hide skill. If you leave concelament and/or cover, you're no longer hiding (unless you have hide in plain sight or camoflage abilities).

So, if you're hiding behind a bush and want to move behind a wagon 10' away on a sunny day, you must leave hiding and then hide again. If you want to do this without being noticed, your opponent must be significantly distracted, usually requiring a bluff roll (perhaps throwing a rock or something to pull their attention away from your location).

Note that moving through concealed areas or areas blocked by parital or complete cover does not require you to leave hiding. If the wagon is next to the bushes, you can move from one to the next without leaving hiding.

If you move, you'll need to make a move silently role. The DM will decide on any appropriate modifiers.

 

[Zaruthustran]

You can't move between hiding places with the hide skill. If you leave concelament and/or cover, you're no longer hiding (unless you have hide in plain sight or camoflage abilities).

So, if you're hiding behind a bush and want to move behind a wagon 10' away on a sunny day, you must leave hiding and then hide again. If you want to do this without being noticed, your opponent must be significantly distracted, usually requiring a bluff roll (perhaps throwing a rock or something to pull their attention away from your location).

Note that moving through concealed areas or areas blocked by parital or complete cover does not require you to leave hiding. If the wagon is next to the bushes, you can move from one to the next without leaving hiding.

If you move, you'll need to make a move silently role. The DM will decide on any appropriate modifiers.

Agree that if you move, you need to make a Move Silent roll (opposed by Listen). If the roll fails you're heard but not necessarily seen.

However, I disagree that one can't move from hiding place to hiding place. Song & Silence had rules for just this situation. If I recall correctly, one could move from one hiding place to a new hiding place 1 foot away per rank in Hide.

So if you're a monk with 10 ranks in Hide and it's a clear sunny day and you're behind a tree (giving you cover, and thus allowing you to hide) then you could try to move to another tree up to 10 feet away--and be hiding/hidden the entire time.

-z

 

[jgsugden]

Agree that if you move, you need to make a Move Silent roll (opposed by Listen). If the roll fails you're heard but not necessarily seen.

However, I disagree that one can't move from hiding place to hiding place. Song & Silence had rules for just this situation. If I recall correctly, one could move from one hiding place to a new hiding place 1 foot away per rank in Hide.

So if you're a monk with 10 ranks in Hide and it's a clear sunny day and you're behind a tree (giving you cover, and thus allowing you to hide) then you could try to move to another tree up to 10 feet away--and be hiding/hidden the entire time.

-z

If you'd like to use those rules, feel free. They are not in the core 3.5 rules.

 

[Li Shenron]

If you are moving to change your hiding place while the enemies are fighting against someone else you could rule to require a MS vs Listen check to spoil your Hide, but IMHO it is a little redundant.

Consider that the listener has at least several penalties because of the noisy environment and for being distracted. Furthermore, I would say that it is basically impossible to distinguish the noise of you moving silently from the noise of everyone else moving non-silently in the heat of the battle, and I would simply rule that there is no need for a MS check (or no help from a Listen check, which is the same).

I may try to rule ad-hoc something if the combatant explicitly tried to focus on your noise while doing something else, but I don't think it's worth.

 

[Thanee]

I'd just make a Hide check opposed by Spot with a penalty to the Hide check, equal to the number of feet (or maybe -2 per 5' square) needed to cross between the two, and maybe a -2 to -4 penalty to the Spot check for the combatants who are obviously being distracted.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Artoomis]

Core rules only:

1. You can't move from hiding place to hiding place if you would be seen without concealment during the move - you'd be spotted automatically.

2. You could use the Bluff skill to distract your opponent to make the move.

Creating a Diversion to Hide: You can use the Bluff skill to help you hide. A successful Bluff check gives you the momentary diversion you need to attempt a Hide check while people are aware of you. This usage does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

3. The Move Silent skill won't help a great deal mostly because in the din of combat they are unlikely to hear you anyway. -10 on the Listen check.

Still, attempting to move silently would help you somewhat - especially when using the Bluff skill to provide a distraction.

A character that wants to use Hide in combat had best put max ranks in Bluff as well.