Move Silently Question

[Antikinesis]

As I have said: move silently is also normally used outside of combat.

That's not a rule, though.

So which makes more sense to use as a basis: out-of-combat movement or in-combat movement?

Use the appropriate basis for the circumstances, depending on whether the movement is attempted in- or out-of-combat.

If you let the definition of 'normal speed' change between out-of-combat and in-combat, then as soon as initiative is rolled, you can move silently for no penalty at a rate that would get you a -5 penalty out of combat. Pardon me for feeling that this is somehow inconsistent.

Once again, you're equating "normal speed" with "walking movement". This does indeed incur inconsistencies.

If you equate "normal speed" with a character's base speed, instead of an invariable fixed number of feet on the map, the inconsistencies are no longer an issue.

-AK

 

[CCamfield]

While not wanting to throw more gasoline on the fire...

I just noticed this in the description of Hide, which I think as a parallel to Move Silently might be relevant because the wording and penalties are pretty much the same as Move Silently:

"... You can move up to one-half your normal speed and hide at no penalty. At more than one-half and up to your full speed, you suffer a -5 penalty. It's practically impossible (-20 penalty) to hide when running or charging.

For example, Lidda has a speed of 20 feet. If she doesn't want to take a penalty on her Hide check, she can move only 10 feet as a move-equivalent action (and thus 20 feet in a round)."

 

[IceBear]

Ooooooo - that's a good find

That's just another example of why I don't think they realized what they are writing (as in the Listen check they do 15ft/round )

I'm going to stick with 1/2 speed (within that frame of reference)

IceBear

 

[CCamfield]

Ooooooo - that's a good find

That's just another example of why I don't think they realized what they are writing (as in the Listen check they do 15ft/round )

I'm going to stick with 1/2 speed (within that frame of reference)

Hey, you're right... those directly contradict each other.

Maybe it's a good thing they're doing revised editions.

 

[drnuncheon]

I just noticed this in the description of Hide, which I think as a parallel to Move Silently might be relevant because the wording and penalties are pretty much the same as Move Silently.

That's the best argument for the other way I've seen so far. It's pretty clearly Darn Inconsistent, and I have the growing suspicion that if we polled the various designers, we'd get both answers...

J

 

[IceBear]

Exactly like I've been saying. As I said, I completely understood your arguments, and you seemed to have more evidence in your favour - I was just going to use 1/2 speed because that's what the designers seemed to have done without realizing that out of combat everyone moves at half speed anyway. That's why I'm going to follow the skill description to the letter - half speed

Out of combat, 15ft per round.

In combat, 15ft per move action.

I'll explain away the discrepancy with the noise of combat offsetting the extra noise for moving faster. That, or I'll use the old 2nd Edition hand-waving as to why people moved slower out of combat than in.

As long as it's consistent and everyone is using the same rate of time, it's all good

IceBear

 

[drnuncheon]

Exactly like I've been saying. As I said, I completely understood your arguments, and you seemed to have more evidence in your favour - I was just going to use 1/2 speed because that's what the designers seemed to have done without realizing that out of combat everyone moves at half speed anyway.

I prefer to think of that as 'everyone moves at double speed in combat'.

I'll explain away the discrepancy with the noise of combat offsetting the extra noise for moving faster.

What will you do if it's a quiet combat?

I'll note that while there's a -5 for 'Spotter distracted' (which fits nicely with 'combat' in my mind) there doesn't seem to be a similar -5 for 'Listener distracted'.

Oh well.

J

 

[IceBear]

Well, the thing is, like you - most of the time anyone uses this skill it will be out of combat, so it's all moot.

When combat breaks out it's definitely not going to be quiet (unless it's silenced and then moving silently is a moot point )
but I have yet to see anyone want to move silently in combat. It's not like you have to take them unaware to get sneak attacks - you just need to flank. If the rogue wants to sneak attack someone from an ambush, 9 times out of 10 it's either just before combat starts (the attack being the start of combat) or it's the surprise round and they're flat footed anyway.

Anyway, as for there being no -5 penalty listed, I see those charts as *examples* of modifiers, not the be all and end all of modifiers

IceBear