Movement in combat

[Thanee]

Well, I let the characters use their abilities (and sometimes remind the players, if they forget about them, when the characters surely would not). I don't play a players vs DM game.

Bye
Thanee

 

[dvvega]

From your question I have assumed the following: you aren't using miniatures or some form of combat layout, and you are taking instructions from the players as to what they're doing. So a player states "move, flank, sneak" and you want to know how to handle it fairly in a descriptive manner.

It will work as intended as long as no other circumstance forbids it. Character 1 will draw one AOO from the opponent since they must move out of at least one threatened square. They cannot get to a flanking position with a 5' step if the two of them started side by side.

Character 2 cannot be flat-footed since there will be no flanking.

D

 

[Thanee]

Yep, if there was some obstacle (a wall, for example) barring the position right across character 2, then it wouldn't work, of course. But you didn't say anything about obstacles, so it's assumed, that the square is free and reachable.

For such situations, using a map greatly helps (doesn't even need to have squares, a rough drawn map with marks where everyone is is totally sufficient to get a grip on the surroundings).

Also, as dvvega said, if character 2 is flat-footed (start of combat, hasn't acted yet), then there is no threatened area and hence no flanking opportunity for character 1, until the first action of character 2.

Of course, character 1 could then just delay after character 2, and if both play smart, character 2 could make a 5-ft. step to the left and afterwards character 1 a 5-ft. step to the right of their opponent, thereby getting into flanking position (for that round at least) without provoking an attack of opportunity.

O
12

O2
1

1O2

Bye
Thanee

 

[Maldur]

We are using miniatures, but no grid. And one the "moving" character is a rogue, not the other character.

I am asking because our DM went ape over this, saying something like: "you are in combat, the only natural thing to do is stab him. Not moving first."


In Thanee's first picture (see post above) is the stating position.
We were hasted and allready in combat (no flatfootedness).
if 1 is the rogue, he was planning to move to the third position then make one attack using the sneak attack bonus. He did not care for AoO he has a ludricous AC and Mobility. the Dm just said that it would be very unlikely this could ever happen in combat.

 

[frankthedm]

Well, I let the characters use their abilities (and sometimes remind the players, if they forget about them, when the characters surely would not). I don't play a players vs DM game.

Bye
Thanee

it is not "players vs DM" to follow the rules. Only characters with decent wisdoms deserve freebies like that, otherwise the player should be asking . OTOH I have been doling out a lot of those tips because my high wisdom group has been in a one mistake will spell death from a few Devil Recon units [Devilish centaurs and a demoted Eryines [ she gets her spell-likes back if she kills them] that would like them dead.

 

[Thanee]

Is that your answer to the "Is Wisdom the new dump stat?" thread?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Mini Combat.

I am asking because our DM went ape over this, saying something like: "you are in combat, the only natural thing to do is stab him. Not moving first."

Umm.. your DM needs to read the rules... and maybe check up with current real world combat doctrine of 'Shoot-Move-& Communicate'. Attacking from where you are may not be the best thing to do.... it sounds like your game emulates a non-mini game where the actions boil down to 'Move close enough and hit the Orc'.

3E and Mini's make it so the players can have the choice to be tactical in thier actions.. it is designed so that a player can manuever into a tactical advantage in the manner described.

The characters can move-attack or attack-move.. and if they get Spring Attack even move-attack-move.

The do not have to declare thier entire rounds actions, unless they are taking a full round action like Withdraw. In this manner, the Rogue could move into a flanking position, realize that their is another bad guy about to come through a door, complete his move to the door and try to bar it.
{while I can't find this exactly in the SRD, under Full Attack you can gage the effect of your first attack and either redirect your other attacks or decide to take a Move action...so I am extrapolating a bit.}


As to informing players about their options re AoO and Tumble, my group is still learning the rules, but my 'old timers' don't get the freindly reminding

 

[Mordane76]

Is your DM new at this, Maldur? Even with shaky understanding of AoO, my group had been moving for tactical bonuses since day one... it's one of the benefits of group tactics, along with concentrated fire.

 

[dvvega]

Sounds more like the DM is a DM vs Players kind of DM. There is an obvious advantage to the players to move, flank, sneak attack, but he's trying to cajole/intimidate/just get mad the players into attacking without tactics. Unless your rogue is an utter moron (INT/WIS < 8) then there is no basis for disallowing the move/flank/attack.

D

 

[Maldur]

Yes the DM is new, and yes he seems to be the Players vs Dm kind.

But Ill teach him, one way or another

I was just afraid I missed something.