Moving Silently w. a Spike Chain

[warpmind]

I've just remembered one of my players who plays a rogue and is armed with a Chain Spike. Not a very subtle weapon. The main problem is that if he has to use Move Silently in order to get someone flat-footed, which penalties should I apply to the check. Didn't some wepons need to have a kind of check penalty for Move Silently? Anyway, which penalty should you apply? I think a -4 is fair.

 

[Zhure]

"That'd be a house rule, Bob."

The only penalty is from encumbrance or armor, whichever is worse. A spiked chain is heavy and might push the character to a higher encumbrance level.

Spiked chain's aren't subtle? Then why can one use Weapon Finesse with them?

Greg

 

[warpmind]

Of course, I ask for a house rule. As far as I know there's nothing official written about this.

Don't you think really that chained weapons have to make it harder to move without being heard?

And well, the spiked chain is not the weapon I think an assassin would use to cut someone's throat. But that's a matter of taste, of personal opinion.

 

[Jeremy]

Clarification, the one visual interpretation of the weapon in the pictoral of the PHB's equipment section is a very unsubtle somewhat brutal weapon well suited to a half orc.

But a spiked chain, or even a simple chain can be a very subtle and well concealed weapon. Methods can even be taken to silence them. Which if he is a sneaky rogue (a cutpurse, scout, or thief-taker) he has probably already taken care of in his training with the unusual weapon.

Or I could be totally wrong.

 

[Jeremy]

Of course, I ask for a house rule. As far as I know there's nothing official written about this.

Don't you think really that chained weapons have to make it harder to move without being heard?

And well, the spiked chain is not the weapon I think an assassin would use to cut someone's throat. But that's a matter of taste, of personal opinion.

Ah, but that's because it hasn't been represented well in enough movies. The dagger, the sword, the staff, they are all relatively unimaginative weapons that involve simple direct motions. In order to visualize or properly employ some other exotic weapons, more circular techniques that better capitolize on momentum, anatomical kinesthetics, and target pressure points or vital areas (throat, groin, eyes, knees, base of the skull, bridge of the nose) you have to think in more of a martial arts mindset.

While it may not be taught in some monastery somewhere, these weapons are not swing and hit weapons that require no training (else they would be simple or possibly martial weapons) these weapons are used in unusual fighting styles with exacting training that are best imagined after watching a few low plot/high action martial arts movies.

But trust me, a spiked chain can be a very effective assasination tool in a number of ways. It just requires significantly more practice and training to be used as anything but an unwieldy heavy rope that you just swing really hard.

 

[Ilen]

Of course, I ask for a house rule. As far as I know there's nothing official written about this.

Then may I draw your attention here?

 

[kreynolds]

Of course, I ask for a house rule.

Then ask on the House Rules forum. You'll probably get more responses there anyways.

As far as I know there's nothing official written about this.

That's because it's unnecessary, and kinda silly, to apply a penalty to moving silently. Bad idea.

Don't you think really that chained weapons have to make it harder to move without being heard?

If they did, it would be in the weapon description.

Besides, I can personally attest that when you're sneaking up on someone from behind, and you have a chain wrapped around your wrist, with the end gripped tightly in your palm, which will allow you to lash out with the sucker like a whip with a simple release of your clenched hand, the poor bugger you're comin' up on will never hear you.

And well, the spiked chain is not the weapon I think an assassin would use to cut someone's throat.

Maybe not. But it's a deadly weapon none the less, and that's all one needs.

But that's a matter of taste, of personal opinion.

That's exactly right. You shouldn't impose your "personal taste" upon your players. That's bad form. Besides, a dagger is a piercing weapon, not slashing. So technically, in your game, a dagger would be a poor weapon to slash someone's throat with, but we all know that it works just fine.

 

[Bagpuss]

As long as you maintain tension on the chain then the links won't make any additional noise by banging together. It wouldn't really be a stealthy weapon to use (unless you slip it over their neck and strangle them with it), but moving with it would not be a problem.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

That's because it's unnecessary, and kinda silly, to apply a penalty to moving silently. Bad idea.

What is this?!? I agree with you twice in one day! What is the world coming to??

I say stick with the Armor Check Penalties from the armor and encumbrance rules and do not worry about weapons or carried items.

You could nickel and dime PCs for that longsword scabbard dragging on the ground. Or for that holy symbol banging against a breastplate. Or for having a low Con and wheezing from being out of breathe. But it will make the game neither more fun nor more realistic.

IMHO, assume the character is highly competent and knows simple measures to make their skills work. Don't look for tiny mistakes on the part of the player in the hopes of dinging them with a circumstance penalty.

YMMV.

 

[kreynolds]

What is this?!? I agree with you twice in one day! What is the world coming to??

Stranger things have happened. But what was the other thing you agreed with me on?

You could nickel and dime PCs for that longsword scabbard dragging on the ground. Or for that holy symbol banging against a breastplate. Or for having a low Con and wheezing from being out of breathe.

ROTFLMAO