Moving the Story Forward

[jcayer]

DMs, how do you balance moving the story forward and keeping things interesting in 4E?

Currently, my group is working to help retake a city. I developed a list of things they needed to accomplish in one night. There were 8 things, like take out the watch towers, etc. While they have enjoyed it, and I have enjoyed pushing them beyond their comfort zones, this has turned into the "longest day EVER". It has taken 3 sessions so far and will take at least one more.

On the other side of the coin, I know the next 3 places they are going and what is supposed to happen in the story at those places. I want to get to those places, but I also can't have a castle with only 2 rooms to explore.

I guess it really boils down to the story vs the journey.

 

[AngryMojo]

You can have a castle with hundreds of rooms, but only two or three encounters. Remember the encounter based design. Think of a necromancer's tower. You can have a large, eight story tower with a grand total of three encounters; a skill challenge to get past the haunted grove and into the front gate, a fight with his minions on a lower level, and the final confrontation with the necromancer himself spiced up with zones of necrotic energy and a dark ritual that's about to be completed. If things are on a time clock, like you said, it gives the PC's a lot of incentive to give a cursory investigation of the rooms in-between.

I do this a lot when I need to push my PC's to the limits. If it's a race against time, the specific treasure in that alchemy lab can be put on the back burner.

 

[Quickleaf]

Currently, my group is working to help retake a city. I developed a list of things they needed to accomplish in one night. There were 8 things, like take out the watch towers, etc. While they have enjoyed it, and I have enjoyed pushing them beyond their comfort zones, this has turned into the "longest day EVER". It has taken 3 sessions so far and will take at least one more.

Wait a second. I don't know about your group but we get about 4 encounters done per session (ours last 4 hours). So if you planned 8 separate encounters that should be about 8 hours of play, or 2 sessions (your mileage may vary).

What you're saying is that either you are playing 2 hour sessions or your group is taking *twice* as long to play through encounters as it "should". What's causing encounters to drag on? Do you have a group of beginners? Is your group size unusually large? Are you playing a sandbox game (though it doesn't sound like it)?

And ditto everything AngryMojo said.

 

[fissionessence]

Wait a second. I don't know about your group but we get about 4 encounters done per session (ours last 4 hours). So if you planned 8 separate encounters that should be about 8 hours of play, or 2 sessions (your mileage may vary).

What you're saying is that either you are playing 2 hour sessions or your group is taking *twice* as long to play through encounters as it "should". What's causing encounters to drag on? Do you have a group of beginners? Is your group size unusually large? Are you playing a sandbox game (though it doesn't sound like it)?

And ditto everything AngryMojo said.

My group hasn't even attempted more than one encounter in any of our weekly 2-3 hour sessions I'm not really sure what the delay is. It makes it tough to move the story at any speedy pace.

~

 

[the Jester]

Umm, instead of figuring out what the pcs should do for the next couple of sessions, I'd let them decide and then figure out what happens.

I don't mean to jump to conclusions, but you sound like you have the story all figured out, which is great if you want to write a book but terrible if you want to run a game. I'd urge you to instead think of compelling motivations for your npcs, and let the pcs' actions determine how they interact with the villains.

 

[Nightson]

Wait a second. I don't know about your group but we get about 4 encounters done per session (ours last 4 hours). So if you planned 8 separate encounters that should be about 8 hours of play, or 2 sessions (your mileage may vary).

What you're saying is that either you are playing 2 hour sessions or your group is taking *twice* as long to play through encounters as it "should". What's causing encounters to drag on? Do you have a group of beginners? Is your group size unusually large? Are you playing a sandbox game (though it doesn't sound like it)?

And ditto everything AngryMojo said.

Uh, one hour per encounter is not some sort of universal standard.

All the OP needs to worry about is whether the players are having fun, and it sounds like they are, so I would advise not worrying about it.

 

[wedgeski]

While they have enjoyed it, and I have enjoyed pushing them beyond their comfort zones, this has turned into the "longest day EVER". It has taken 3 sessions so far and will take at least one more.

I honestly don't think you should worry about it. If they're enjoying it, there's no problem.

In the past I've sometimes had "a feeling" that my players are bored, accelerated the game to compensate, only to discover later that they weren't bored in the slightest. These days, I work on the assumption that if my players want a change, they'll let me know in no uncertain terms.

If you want to advance the game because *you're* bored... well, that's a thorny issue. I would counsel against it, but I won't try and convince you why.

 

[Quickleaf]

Uh, one hour per encounter is not some sort of universal standard.

Actually, everyone I've spoken with and tons of anecdotal evidence from ENWorld and WotC suggests that an "average" encounter lasts 45-75 minutes, or on average, an hour. Regardless, something is causing drag for jcayer's encounters any way you slice it.

 

[jcayer]

Let me see if I can fill in some more detail. We typically play a 4-5 hour session every 2 weeks. There are 6 players, all with previous experience, from years ago. This group started with 4e AND has been going strong for almost a year. Our combats typically run about an hour. I work hard to keep them interesting and to prevent the grind.

My comment about knowing where they are going next is directed toward a time based event and a couple things surrounding it, so while it is their choice, it really isn't.

I think my frustration is I have crafted a story, which they all enjoy, but it is just taking a LONG time to tell. The other problem is things just take too long to happen. I have a player with a cursed sword, I know what I am going to do to let him get rid of it, but I know it will take a while till we get there.

I will say, none of the players have outright complained or expressed frustration with the way things are. But I think some of them would also like to see things happen quicker.

I guess I'm just an old school player from AD&D days where you could get through a lot more in a similarly timed session.

 

[ExploderWizard]

My comment about knowing where they are going next is directed toward a time based event and a couple things surrounding it, so while it is their choice, it really isn't.

This is part of the problem. When the DM sets up adventures that have events with outcomes largely pre-determined it eliminates meaningful player choice. Without that choice there really isn't a reason for the PC's to play it out. If certain events are going to unfold, then just tell the story and make these events part of the "movie intro" part of the game. Resume actual play at the table with the parts of the adventure where the player's decisions have real impact on the world.

I think my frustration is I have crafted a story, which they all enjoy, but it is just taking a LONG time to tell. The other problem is things just take too long to happen. I have a player with a cursed sword, I know what I am going to do to let him get rid of it, but I know it will take a while till we get there.

If the entire adventure is just a pre-scripted story its no wonder that things seem to be taking too long. If the DM already knows whats going to happen then there are no suprises or much excitement on that side of the screen. Open things up some and let the player's take the game where they want. It will change the story but adding the unknown element can be much more fun for the DM.