multi-armed....yeah.....

[banjolick]

okay, i have sort of a silly problem. I was planning on having a sweet final encounter in a dungeon i made, and i was goitn to use a thri-kreen due to the extreme jumping capabilities and 4-armed-ness. So I was makign the character when i realized, "Dagnabbit!!" (son of Dagna), that I did not know what constituted as primary and secondary with the arms. i have seen it refered to as a primary one arm and 3 secondary as well as two primary and two secondary. I would appreciate any help that any of you would give. I was also not sure if IF I made the thri-kreen a monk, whether the flurry of blows would improve (beyond that of a 2 armed thing) or not. thank you!!!

 

[Arkhandus]

Many-armed creatures have only 1 primary hand, unless their description specifies otherwise.

Flurry of blows is separate from natural weapon attacks, IIRC. If a thri-kreen monk uses its arms only for unarmed strikes (or appropriate monk weapon attacks, like nunchakus), it can flurry. But, it is debateable whether or not the monk can use the two-weapon fighting or multi-weapon fighting rules when striking unarmed or using a flurry unarmed.

There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed.

This line is the point of contention on that. Depending entirely on DM interpretation, and considering where the line is in the monk's unarmed attack description, you may or may not be able to gain extra attacks from multiple arms.

Some interpret it as meaning that you cannot use off-hand attacks when striking unarmed as a monk, others interpret it as meaning that you simply always treat your unarmed strikes as primary hand attacks (and can get extra attacks as though from an off-hand weapon, but doing damage as per a primary hand attack), and others interpret it as meaning simply that the monk's primary-hand unarmed strikes can be made with any body part and it doesn't affect their status as primary-hand attacks (whether it's a headbutt or a left-handed punch or whatever).

The latter one already applies normally (monks are definitely able to strike with any part of their body as a primary-hand attack, even if that limb would normally be their off-hand), but it's uncertain if that invalidates off-hand extra attacks or not.

So it's up to DM adjudication pure and simple. I'm sure the FAQ has some answer that may or may not actually answer the question, and I know the FAQ gets a lot of bogus rulings and contradictions, so I wouldn't bother checking it to see.

Either the DM rules that the monk's ability indicates that you cannot make any off-hand attacks while fighting unarmed or in a flurry, or they rule that you can, in which case they also have to rule whether or not you treat your extra off-hand attacks as primary hands for purposes of attack bonus and Strength bonus to damage.

 

[Rvdvelden]

Make him a fighter...

First two hands (primary attack): Two-handed sword
Third hand (secondary attack): Light weapon (mace)
Fourth hand: Shield

Give him (improved/greater) two-weapon fighting and he can make lots of attacks and deal loads of damage in a single round.

 

[Flynn]

Please note that only one hand is considered primary, and all others are considered secondary, when dealing with multi-armed creatures. The following feats confirm this, and provide you with options for improving iterative combat for multi-limbed creatures:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#multiweaponFighting
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMultiweaponFighting
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#greaterMultiweaponFighting
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#perfectMultiweaponFighting
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#multiweaponRend

Multiweapon Fighting [General]

Prerequisites
Dex 13, three or more hands.

Benefit
Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by 2 with the primary hand and reduced by 6 with off hands.

Normal
A creature without this feat takes a -6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a -10 penalty on attacks made with its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting.

Special
This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.

Improved Multiweapon Fighting [General]

Prerequisites
Dex 15, three or more arms, Multiweapon Fighting, base attack bonus +9.

Benefit
In addition to the single extra attack a creature gets with each extra weapon from Multiweapon Fighting, it gets a second attack with each extra weapon, albeit at a -5 penalty.

Normal
With only Multiweapon Fighting, a creater can only get a single attack with each extra weapon.

Special
This feat replaces the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.

Greater Multiweapon Fighting [General]

Prerequisites
Dex 19, three or more arms, Improved Multiweapon Fighting, Multiweapon Fighting, base attack bonus +15.

Benefit
The creature may make up to three extra attacks with each extra offhand weapon it wields, albeit at a -10 penalty on the third attack with each weapon.

Special
This feat replaces the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.

Perfect Multiweapon Fighting [Epic]

Prerequisite
Dex 25, three or more hands, Greater Multiweapon Fighting, Multiweapon Fighting.

Benefit
You can make as many attacks with each extra weapon as with your primary weapon, using the same base attack bonus. You still take the normal penalties for fighting with two weapons.

Normal
Without this feat, you can make only one attack per round with each extra weapon (or two attacks per round with each weapon if you have Multiweapon Fighting, or three attacks per round with each extra weapon if you have Greater Multiweapon Fighting). Each attack after the first extra attack has a cumulative -5 penalty.

Special
This feat replaces the Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.

Multiweapon Rend [Epic]
Prerequisites
Dex 15, base attack bonus +9, three or more hands, Multiweapon Fighting.

Benefit
If you hit an opponent with two or more weapons (wielded in different hands) in the same round, you may automatically rend the opponent. This rending deals additional damage equal to the base damage of the smallest weapon that hit plus 1 ½ times your Strength modifier. You can only rend once per round, regardless of how many successful attacks you make.

Special
This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Rend feat for creatures with more than two arms.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[Flynn]

Also, in regards to multiple attacks and monks....

From D&D FAQ v3.5, found here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a

The description of the flurry of blows ability says there’s no such thing as a monk attacking with an off-hand weapon during a flurry of blows. What does that mean, exactly? Can the monk make off-hand attacks in addition to flurry attacks?

Actually, the text to which you refer appears in the entry for unarmed strikes. When a monk uses her unarmed strike ability, she does not suffer any penalty for an off-hand attack, even when she has her hands full and attacks with her knees and elbows, using the flurry of blows ability to make extra attacks, or both.
The rules don’t come right out and say that a monk can’t use an unarmed strike for an off-hand strike (although the exact wording of the unarmed strike ability suggests otherwise), and no compelling reason why a monk could not do so exists.
When using an unarmed strike as an off-hand attack, the monk suffers all the usual attack penalties from two-weapon fighting (see Table 8–10 in the Player’s Handbook) and the monk adds only half her Strength bonus (if any) to damage if the off-hand unarmed strike hits.
To add an off-hand attack to a flurry of blows, stack whatever two-weapon penalty the monk has with the penalty (if any) from the flurry. Attacks from the flurry have the monk’s full damage bonus from Strength, but the off-hand attack gains only half Strength bonus to damage. If the off-hand attack is a weapon, that weapon isn’t available for use in the flurry (if it can be used in a flurry at all, see the previous question). For example, a 4th-level monk with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat and a Strength score of 14 decides to use a flurry of blows and decides to throw in an off-hand attack as well. The monk has a base attack bonus of +3 and a +2 Strength bonus. With a flurry, the character can make two attacks, each at +3 (base +3, –2 flurry, +2 Strength). An unarmed strike is a light weapon, so the monk suffers an additional –2 penalty for both the flurry and the off-hand attack, and the monk makes three attacks, each at an attack bonus of +1. The two attacks from the flurry are primary attacks and add the monk’s full Strength bonus to damage of +2. The single off-hand attack adds half the monk’s Strength bonus to damage (+1).
If the monk in our example has two sais to use with the flurry, plus the off-hand attack, she can use both in the flurry (in which case she must make the off-hand attack with an unarmed strike) or one sai for the off-hand attack and one with the flurry. The sai used in the off-hand attack is not available for the flurry and vice versa.

Can a monk fight with two weapons? Can she combine a two-weapon attack with a flurry of blows? What are her penalties on attack rolls?

A monk can fight with two weapons just like any other character, but she must accept the normal penalties on her attack rolls to do so. She can use an unarmed strike as an offhand weapon. She can even combine two-weapon fighting with a flurry of blows to gain an extra attack with her off hand (but remember that she can use only unarmed strikes or special monk weapons as part of the flurry). The penalties for two-weapon fighting stack with the penalties for flurry of blows.
For example, at 6th level, the monk Ember can normally make one attack per round at a +4 bonus. When using flurry of blows, she can make two attacks (using unarmed strikes or any special monk weapons she holds), each at a +3 bonus. If she wants to make an extra attack with her off hand, she has to accept a –4 penalty on her primary hand attacks and a –8 penalty on her off-hand attacks (assuming she wields a light weapon in her off hand).
If Ember has Two-Weapon Fighting, she has to accept only a –2 penalty on all attacks to make an extra attack with her off hand. Thus, when wielding a light weapon in her off hand during a flurry of blows, she can make a total of three attacks, each at a total bonus of +1. At least one of these attacks has to be with her off-hand weapon.
A 20th-level monk with Greater Two-Weapon Fighting can make eight attacks per round during a flurry of blows. Assuming she wields a light weapon in her off hand, her three off-hand weapon attacks are at +13/+8/+3, and she has five attacks (at +13/+13/+13/+8/+3) with unarmed strikes or any weapons she carries in her primary hand. If the same monk also has Rapid Shot and throws at least one shuriken as part of her flurry of blows (since Rapid Shot can be used only with ranged attacks), she can throw one additional shuriken with her primary hand, but all of her attacks (even melee attacks) suffer a –2 penalty. Thus, her full attack array looks like this: +11/+11/+11/+11/+6/+1 primary hand (two must be with shuriken) and +11/+6/+1 off hand.

Since the Multi-Weapon Fighting feats take the place of Two-Weapon Fighting feats for creatures with more than two hands, the above should apply to multi-armed monks as well, with the proper feat replacements.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[Deset Gled]

I was also not sure if IF I made the thri-kreen a monk, whether the flurry of blows would improve (beyond that of a 2 armed thing) or not. thank you!!!

Don't go there. Seriously.