D&D 4E Multi-classing in 4e - hints from ToB?

[Dragonblade]

Yes!! Finally multiclassing that does not suck. Finally I can make a 10th level fighter/wizard that while not as powerful as a 10th level fighter, is still better than a 5th level fighter and a better wizard that a 5th level wizard.

That is a vast improvement. I really hope we do see some variation of the "initiator level" rules from ToB applied to caster level. ToB really got it right, in my opinion.

 

[koxler]

I would agree that multiclassing was not a good character choice in 3e. From what I have read it sounds like you are really on track with how they may approach it in 4e. Given that it would really add a lot to character development and really improve things over our current options. Just have to keep out fingers crossed...

 

[Atlatl Jones]

This could be one of the reasons why they've explicitly made power source a game mechanic.

I just hope that they make it a lot easier to choose powers for higher level characters. In ToB as it currently stand, you almost have to go through the class level by level, picking and then discarding maneuvers, to make a characters. A simple "can choose X powers, but must meet all prerequisites" and maybe "can only choose 1/3 of maneuvers from highst level, 1/3 from second highest level, and 1/3 from the rest", or something to that effect.

Wizards could work by having all the spells in their spellbook, but having to prepare a limited number of them each day to be in his suite of powers.

 

[hong]

Bo9S multiclassing is straight out of Iron Heroes, as I recall. Another reason why I am so glad Mearls is leading up 4E development.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

A 10th level character (Wiz5, Fig5) shouldn't be treated as a Wiz7 and Fig7, that's crap.

On the contrary, the reason that they should be treated as something more than the sum of their parts is that a wizard 5/fighter 5 is not an effective or fun 10th-level PC.

A 10th-level character who is effectively "wizard 7/fighter 7" may well be as effective or fun to play as a wizard 10 or a fighter 10. The single-classed characters still get the special, 10th-level spells/maneuvers/options, but the multi-classed character isn't left twiddling his thumbs with abilities 5 levels below the power of the challenges he's facing.

 

[Aloïsius]

This could be one of the reasons why they've explicitly made power source a game mechanic.

You mean, there will be a Base Attack Bonus, a Divine Base Rank and an Arcane Caster Level, for each class ? Or something like that ?

 

[hong]

Is there a designer quote about power source being an actual game mechanic? AFAIK, it's just an abstract metaphor for how PCs get to do cool stuff.

 

[Lord Rasputin]

There's precedent for this in Star Wars Saga. Your skills are always 1/2 Level + Attribute + 5 (Trained) + 5 (Skill Focus). Jedi, to use the Force, have the Use the Force skill. Even if you take two levels in a non-Jedi class, those two levels up the skill level, though you must be a Jedi to Use the Force, and there are other benefits to the class as well. Someone who owns the book should feel free to clarify or amend this.

For spells, I suspect we'll see some sort of Spellcasting skill, especially if Defenses (saving throws and armor class) are similar to to those in Star Wars Saga. Maybe there's separate Divine Spellcasting and Arcane Spellcasting skills or something, but you roll those to get through your foe's defense. Like Use the Force, they always go up, even if you take two levels of fighter.

 

[Henry]

You mean, there will be a Base Attack Bonus, a Divine Base Rank and an Arcane Caster Level, for each class ? Or something like that ?

Didn't Rangerwickett (or was it Cyberzombie?) come up with something like that in Elements of Magic several years ago?

 

[Hodgie]

I don't think that sounds right. If a character dual-classes, they should be equal to their class level in each, not 2/3 in each. They chose to split their xp between two classes, they're taking the hit and they should gain the benefit of the levels they've bought in those classes, not more. The benefit of multi-classing is the mix of skills, pure and simple.

A 10th level character (Wiz5, Fig5) shouldn't be treated as a Wiz7 and Fig7, that's crap.

The problem as I see it is that the character is being treated as a Ftr7 but NOT a Wiz7.

Those 5 levels of Wiz brought the Ftr to 7 BAB, gave it 2 more feats (same as a Ftr), and 5d4+ 5x con vs 2d10 + 2x con HP. So in fact, it is a little better than Ftr7. Unfortunately, it is a lot worse than Wiz7, which makes it under powered and un-fun to play.