Multiclass and Replacing Powers

[muchan]

Multiclass feats like Pact Initiate give you an at-will power as an encounter power. For the most part, these powers usually aren't very good as encounter powers. However, at those levels that you can trade in an encounter power for new one, could you trade in the power you got from your multiclass feat? Would it count as an encounter power and as one from your class (in this case, the class you multiclassed into).

Furthermore, if this is true, could you trade in said power for a power from your primary class at these levels much like you can trade in a power from a paragon path for one from your base class?

If this is true, it would make several of the multiclass feats a bit more attractive.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

I missed the unattractive part of a plate-armored fighter launching a fireball out of his sword.

 

[muchan]

Umm...because the initial multiclass feat (in this case, Arcane Initiate) wouldn't let you do that without taking another feat as well, and as many posters on other threads have stated, it seems that by and large, an at-will power as an encounter is generally not a good deal.

However, my question wasn't actually how attractive the initial multiclass feats are (not the power swaps), but whether you could swap out the power that Arcane Initiate and Pact Initiate gives because they are considered class encounter powers rather than at-wills.

 

[melkoriii]

Umm...because the initial multiclass feat (in this case, Arcane Initiate) wouldn't let you do that without taking another feat as well, and as many posters on other threads have stated, it seems that by and large, an at-will power as an encounter is generally not a good deal.

However, my question wasn't actually how attractive the initial multiclass feats are (not the power swaps), but whether you could swap out the power that Arcane Initiate and Pact Initiate gives because they are considered class encounter powers rather than at-wills.

From what I have read in other threads, yes you can.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Umm...because the initial multiclass feat (in this case, Arcane Initiate) wouldn't let you do that without taking another feat as well, and as many posters on other threads have stated, it seems that by and large, an at-will power as an encounter is generally not a good deal.

However, my question wasn't actually how attractive the initial multiclass feats are (not the power swaps), but whether you could swap out the power that Arcane Initiate and Pact Initiate gives because they are considered class encounter powers rather than at-wills.

As I understand it, no. Retraining only allows you to change powers that you gained by leveling, and isn't applicable to powers gained from other sources, such as feats or paragon paths.

 

[Lurker37]

Retraining appears to only give you the option to change a choice you made. Since there is no choice in the power you get with feats like Arcane Initiate, retraining cannot change that power.

If Arcane Initiate gave you a choice between two powers, then you could select the other one with retraining, but not a third one not listed in the feat.

 

[muchan]

Oh, this isn't in regards to the retraining you can do at every level. Rather, the question pertains to whether you can swap out the given power at levels 13, 17, 23, and 27 when you are allowed to replace one known encounter power with a new one.

 

[Tzepish]

The language of the multiclassing rules from page 208 of the Player's Handbook seems to indicate that what you describe cannot be done.

"That power replaces a power you would normally have from your primary class."

and

"When you take one of these power-swap feats, you give up a power of your choice from your primary class and replace it with a power of the same level or lower from the class you have multiclassed in."

(Bold emphasis is mine)

 

[muchan]

I'm not quite so sure about that. Both of those quoted lines are reference to powers swapped via the Power Swap Feats. However, my question is solely in regards to the Class Specific Feats which, in this case, the Power Swaps would not effect.

Furthermore, on page 27 under powers, it states that, "At 13th, 17th, 23rd, and 27th levels, you can replace any encounter attack power you know from your class with a new one of your new level (or an encounter attack power of a lower level, if you choose)."

It makes no mention of primary or secondary classes, and as far as I can tell your multiclassed class is considered one of the classes you are part of. Additionally, you are allowed to replace powers you received via Paragon Paths at those levels you could normally do so, and this holds true even if your Paragon Path is one that you entered through one of the Class Specific Multiclass feats, which seems to imply that replacing that replacing the power gotten through either Arcane Initiate or Pact Initiate is viable. Indeed, this would also seem to imply that you could replace that power with a power from any of the classes you currently belong to, just like Paragon Powers.

At the very least, it seems that you would be able to replace that power with one from the same class you multi'ed into (in this case either a Wizard or Warlock encounter power).