Multiclass loss in power.

[SorroW]

Well the last of my three stupid questions.

I tried too run a game with multiclassed chars only.
I took away the xp penelties. But they still felt like they were like 4 levels lower then they were.

Does anybody else have this problem. What do you do? I really like multiclassing characters as a straight anything is the same everytime. And yes, they were casters with atleast 3 of their levels.

 

[Thanee]

What do you do?

Here are some options:

1/X-1 class level split
multiclassing non-spellcasters only
Practiced Spellcaster
Arcane Trickster (rogue/wizard)
Eldritch Knight (fighter/wizard)
Mystic Theurge (cleric/wizard)
Sublime Chord (bard/sorcerer (w/o sorcerer levels, tho ))

Bye
Thanee

 

[Blue]

Forget "multiclassed" vs. "single classed", think "is this cohesive".

Multiclassed characters need to have a synergy between the classes in order for it to work. A single classed character "has synergy with itself" - a fighter learning to fight better or a wizard learning to cast more increases themselves, but a wizard learning to fight better doesn't advance the character as much unless you're making an effort.

But some do work well. For example, a ranger/rogue is not the same character as a ranger or a rogue, but does have her own style that is just as powerful.

Spellcasters are particularly hard to multiclass becuase giving up caster level is rough. The DMG has the Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight to help with this.

Fighting types are particularly easy to multiclass. The ranger/barbarian/fighter works well and that's three classes.

Inthe games I'm in we see about 50% of the characters are multiclasses. Of that, half of them just "dabble" a small portion and the rest are fairly evenly split.

As long as there is a plan, cohesion, and synergy it works well, with no one weaker for it.

Cheers,
=Blue

 

[sfedi]

As everyone noted above, the main problem in multiclassing are spellcasters (i.e. character who´s main power is casting spells).
IMHO, this is because of various things, among which are:
-non-spellcaster classes are completely denied any advancement in casting
(unlike BAB, or Saving throws or Feats, etc.)
-the increase of power of spells is greater than the increase of power of non-spellcasters

Thus, it is extremely crippling to multiclass as a pure spell-caster.

 

[Epicurus88]

Cohesiveness, synergy... all good.

You can make synergistic characters that are multi-classed casters. The focus would have to be the kinds of spells they had in their rosters. I've always visualized a caster-fighter multi-classer who's spells focused on abjuration or transmutation (stat boosting spells).

Also, the Still Spell feat, with its requirement being the use of a spell slot only ONE level higher, is a boon to those who want to cast spells and still wear armor.

.02... cha-ching

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I think the self-synergy point is very apt.

Many classes have roughly linear benefits. Fighter has BAB, HPs, Feats -- all linear. Rogue has skills -- also linear. So a 10th level character has approximately 25% more in abilities than an 8th level character. But take a peek at the guides for creating and awarding xp for encounters; we can plain see that a 10th level character is expected to be roughly twice as effective as the 8th level character.

Some of this is the magic items. But most of it is self-synergy.

You might have noticed that the big gun spellcasters do not get linear benefits. There get a roughly linear increase in the quantity of spells they can cast, but most of these additional spells are higher and higher power. Do not forget how caster level can affect spell power either. Not choosing a pure spellcaster is a big hit. Once you get past 10th level and hit SR, energy resistance, and other layers of defense you will understand why this is necessary.

If you just throw a character together with whatever class fits your fancy at the moment, you character effectiveness will very easily lag 1 or 2 levels behind any competent single-classed character.

 

[Man-thing]

In the Quintessential _______________ II: Advanced Tactics series, they had a section on multiclassing which provided suggestions for ability selections. They also introduced variant rules, that blended the classes together to provide some sort of benefit, with GM approval, to compensate for the decline in power without the need for prestige classes.

 

[SorroW]

In the Quintessential _______________ II: Advanced Tactics series, they had a section on multiclassing which provided suggestions for ability selections. They also introduced variant rules, that blended the classes together to provide some sort of benefit, with GM approval, to compensate for the decline in power without the need for prestige classes.

Were these any good? Is it worth getting that book?

Oh and thanks for all the input. Really opened my eyes about a thing or two.

 

[Man-thing]

Let me see: (It sort of depends as most were written by different authors)

In the Fighter II there is a multiclass path called (The War Singer) Ftr/Brd
Variant Rules: (some require a feat slot, some are instead of some ability, some are just bonus) [All with DM Approval though]

At 4th fighter level (cl 7): Harmonic Blade (spend 1 bardic music) to make your weapon vibrate and act as keen for con modifier rounds
At 8th fighter level (cl 14): Fights as well as he sings - inspire courage in others as they see you fighting
At 10th fighter level (cl 18): Blaze of Glory - adopt the BAB for a fighter of character level for a number of rounds 1/day

For a different take, I go to the Bard II (Sword Dancer) Brd/Ftr

At 1st bard level (cl 1) - a weapon he has weapon focus in becomes their instruement Perform (weapon) for 1 bardic music every 5 ranks = +1 attack roll bonus for a number of rounds
At 4th fighter level (cl 8) - Combat performance - if using his focused weapon he may active a bardic music as a free action on an attack action
At character level 9th (if he meets prerequistes) - Sword Dance Feat - allows 5 foot step after each successful attack in a whirlwind attack up to 1 move action

Coincidentily, in this case both the Fighter II and Bard II were written by Alejandro Melchor

Every option should have 2 books to draw from.

 

[Magesmiley]

The most effective multi-class characters I've seen are those which have made selections which complement one another or which have a specific goal in mind.

Combining rogue levels with fighter or ranger and specializing in two-weapon fighting is a combination which is often very effective (remember you can sneak attack with all of those attacks).

For your multi-class spellcasters, I highly recommend looking ahead for prestige classes which multi-classing might help with. The Mystic Theurge and the True Necromancer are two which come to mind where multi-classing spellcasters can really reap in the benefits of multi-classing (trading some more powerful spells for a truly staggering quantity and breadth of spells).

Another interesting combination I've toyed with is a monk who has a few levels of sorcerer (and concentrating on monk exclusively for subsequent levels). By concentrating on sorcerer spells which complement a monk well (such as mage armor, true strike, shield, cat's grace, etc), you can have an unarmored monk who is a truly nasty customer.

Multi-class spellcasters might also be advised to look for a theme which complements their other class selections. In many cases spells which buff you up are better choices than flashy damaging ones (the ability buffs would be one for example, shield for a two-handed or dual weapon wielder another). Another thought would be summoning spells for a caster/rogue - instant flanker!