Multiclassing and Expanded Spellbook

[TheLordWinter]

So the party's wizard just recently hit a road block. He wants to multiclass, yet he has expanded spellbook. He feels like if he were to do any further multiclassing through the power swap feats, he'd be getting short changed since, by my interpretation of the rules, he'd go from 3 powers (utility or daily) down to 1 power. Is this correct? Am I off base? It just seemed like it'd be bizarre for a character to "memorize" rogue daily exploits or fighter utility powers - or to have two wizard powers and one warlord power, etc.

Does anyone have any advice on the situation? The player feels that if he were to multiclass he'd be getting cheated out of the benefits of expanded spellbook, yet finds the prospect of multiclassing really interesting.

 

[NMcCoy]

Correct, the spellbooking applies only to wizard powers. However, the power swap feats are such that you can't have more multiclass powers than original-class powers of a given type; he'll keep the benefits of the spellbook on his wizard powers, and doesn't have it for encounter powers anyway, so the Novice feat at the least might be quite suitable.

 

[lkjopajdowma]

If he lost expanded spellbook he would go from 3 Utility/Daily powers to 2.

Personally, I dropped it for a different feat the last time I leveled up because I never found myself using that third spell I had chosen.

Maybe I don't understand multiclassing (I haven't done it), but why would he lose the feat to multiclass? Or are you talking about retraining Expanded Spellbook to a Multiclass feat?

 

[TheLordWinter]

If he lost expanded spellbook he would go from 3 Utility/Daily powers to 2.

Personally, I dropped it for a different feat the last time I leveled up because I never found myself using that third spell I had chosen.

Maybe I don't understand multiclassing (I haven't done it), but why would he lose the feat to multiclass? Or are you talking about retraining Expanded Spellbook to a Multiclass feat?

The player wouldn't lose the feat per se so much as he'd lose the benefit of it. He'd go from 3 spells per level with utility or daily powers (or even 2 without the feat) down to 1. It's a pretty significant loss from his perspective as far as flexibility and variety in what he's preparing.

I agree, and will suggest subbing out an Encounter power but not going for more than that.

By the same token though, when you multiclass into wizard and take acolyte or adept power, do you gain 2 powers or would you gain 1? Could you take expanded spellbook (indeed, would you have to) to get up to the normal amount for a non-multiclassed wizard?

 

[MyISPHatesENWorld]

Personally, I have a hard time finding three powers in a Utility/Daily slot that I like enough and like equally enough to make taking Expanded Spellbook worthwhile until the 10th level utilities.

Regardless of that, if I like a power enough to multiclass and spend a feat for it, I'm going to want to memorize it all the time anyway, so giving up the spellbook slots isn't a loss.

 

[Oldtimer]

I'm a bit confused. In my PH Expanded Spellbook only applies to dailies? Why are utilities brought into this? Has that been in errata?

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

Either way, it's the same number of usable powers each day. The wizard just doesn't get to pick and choose which options from the other class they want for that particular day like with wizard dailies. Plus, given you're not exactly replacing your entire repertoire of spells for another class it's not like you're losing all of the options for powers; you're only swapping one or two wizard powers where it'd have any effect (a utility and a daily, or w/e).

 

[Skywalker]

I'm a bit confused. In my PH Expanded Spellbook only applies to dailies? Why are utilities brought into this? Has that been in errata?

That's true, though Wizards do get 2 Utilities as well. So the same issue applies.

 

[Skywalker]

Does anyone have any advice on the situation? The player feels that if he were to multiclass he'd be getting cheated out of the benefits of expanded spellbook, yet finds the prospect of multiclassing really interesting.

Honestly, he should suck it up. This is a case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too. The player will still get considerably benefit from Expanded Spell Book feat (as it will likely apply to 2 or 3 levels of Wizard Spells even with the multiclass).

 

[bganon]

I'm a bit confused. In my PH Expanded Spellbook only applies to dailies? Why are utilities brought into this? Has that been in errata?

No, people just misread it and assume that since the Spellbook class feature applies to both dailies and utilities, that the feat must too. It does not. I made the same mistake at first glance.