D&D 5E Multiclassing discussion

[jodyjohnson]

If I have players that are being prevented from roleplaying because of the rules, I'm inclined to drop restrictive rules.

If I have players that are attempting to 'win/break the game' by using the rules, then I'm inclined to add additional restrictions to curb that.

Alternately I can just tell them that they "won" and go find another group that fits my style better.

There are a number of multiclassing combos that appear to be 'win the game combos'. If they can't clean that up, I'll just go with a simple, "No multiclassing".

 

[Mistwell]

"just roleplay it" is too general to be an answer,

It's an answer.

You want specific examples of how to play an assassin who has reformed and is now religious?

and it borders on being an ad hominem,

What?

Tell you what, if you have any issue with what I said (and I can see no way how what I said could be interpreted as offensive) you go ahead and hit that report button.

can you give me a more cnrete example of how does it solve this issue? By changing her ways I didn.t mean "I've changed, now when I murder people on their sleep I pray to the god on their behalf, oh hw good I've turned out", I meant: to stop using poison and instead trying to learn how to heal people (considering my character WIS will be abysmally low or I wouldn't be prevented form going cleric).

If you mean mechanics-wise, buy healing potions, choose a feat that improves healing (one that gives you a bonus to the first aid skill), obtain a wand of curing and use it to heal people, multi-class into a class that does have some healing but that you can get into like maybe ranger, etc..

To stop murdering people in their sleep and instead learn to fight openly in defense of others (taking int account that my character will just keep getting better at doing the former and wil always get squashed when attempting the later),

The only thing making you murder people in their sleep, is you as a player choosing to have your character do that. You don't have to do the things your character mechanically is able to do, or that they get better at.

 

[Derren]

The only thing making you murder people in their sleep, is you as a player choosing to have your character do that. You don't have to do the things your character mechanically is able to do, or that they get better at.

Thats a pretty silly answer.
Why would a assassin rogue who does not want to assassinate people still get better at assassinations? Why can't he become something else? Because he was born not strong enough he can never learn how to effectively fight in the open?

 

[Mistwell]

Thats a pretty silly answer.
Why would a assassin rogue who does not want to assassinate people still get better at assassinations? Why can't he become something else? Because he was born not strong enough he can never learn how to effectively fight in the open?

Why is it silly? I get better at lots of things I don't do, simply out of life experience. For example, I'd probably be really good at a college debate match in real life based on my experiences since college, but I don't do that sort of thing anymore.

He can still multiclass, just not into that first choice he wanted. He simply was not born to be competent at that sort of thing. I wanted to be an astronaut, but I am simply never going to be skilled enough at the things you need to be skilled at to do that career, no matter how hard I tried at it.

By comparison, this is how much of OD&D, and some entire games, operate. If you want to play a religious character, you just role play it with no real built-in mechanics for it.

 

[jodyjohnson]

I consider them changing paths midway or multiple times a prerrogative, it all depends on what happens to them as they interact to the world. I don't find fun at all having my assassin that has grown sick of killing just getting better and better at it without being able to change her ways despite it being the only natural progression In character, just because as her player I rolled badly, or lacked the foresight to get all 13's, or played on a lower powered campaign where 13 is a high stat.

This might be an excellent opportunity to introduce the Drunk, the Bartender, the Familyperson, and the religious Ardent non-Adventuring classes with no Ability prereqs for adventurers with a mid-life crisis.

All those former adventurers need to keep gaining Hit Dice.

 

[Derren]

Why is it silly? I get better at lots of things I don't do, simply out of life experience. For example, I'd probably be really good at a college debate match in real life based on my experiences since college, but I don't do that sort of thing anymore.

He can still multiclass, just not into that first choice he wanted. He simply was not born to be competent at that sort of thing. I wanted to be an astronaut, but I am simply never going to be skilled enough at the things you need to be skilled at to do that career, no matter how hard I tried at it.

By comparison, this is how much of OD&D, and some entire games, operate. If you want to play a religious character, you just role play it with no real built-in mechanics for it.

Do you really think that you could keep up with people who do debates for a living? Because thats exactly what the rogue does. Despite not wanting to do it any more he keeps better and better at assassinating people at a very high skill level just because of his class choice.
He was not born to be competent in a other class? Curiously he would have been had he started with it. Also, what prevents him from trying anyway?

 

[Mistwell]

Do you really think that you could keep up with people who do debates for a living?

Yes. But then, I am an attorney, which is basically "people who do debates for a living". But it's a different sort of debate from collegiate debate, and I am saying I'd be better at that now too, though I don't do that sort of debate anymore.

Because thats exactly what the rogue does. Despite not wanting to do it any more he keeps better and better at assassinating people at a very high skill level just because of his class choice.

Yes. He notices how to strike things with precision, how people's anatomies work, etc. as he lives longer and gains more experience, even if he is not using that knowledge to kill people like he used to.

He was not born to be competent in a other class?

He was born to be competent in plenty of classes, just not the one he highlighted.

Curiously he would have been had he started with it. Also, what prevents him from trying anyway?

Because starting out comes with a huge amount of non-played background that led to that point. That's a conceit of first level, for all versions of the game, that you come into the game with a wide body of knowledge and non-rules based exceptions to the rules (because the rules don't cover that period of time prior to first level).

 

[Derren]

Yes. He notices how to strike things with precision, how people's anatomies work, etc. as he lives longer and gains more experience, even if he is not using that knowledge to kill people like he used to.

So when he gets better at assassinating people just by existing and not even trying, why can't he become better with straight up fights even when training?

And you haven't answered why he can't try to be the other class anyway even though he would not be very good at it?
Wait, let me guess. Something along the lines of "Combat Balance", "Trap Choice" or "Everyone must be good at combat as this is the only fun part of the game"?

 

[Mistwell]

So when he gets better at assassinating people just by existing and not even trying, why can't he become better with straight up fights even when training?

If you want to have many-years long training rules, I think he can. Something that sort of emulates what happens prior to being 1st level I suppose. But as this is a game based around days and weeks more than years, when it comes to leveling, I don't think training can really do it. At least, not for me.

And you haven't answered why he can't try to be the other class anyway even though he would not be very good at it?

Sort of like I cannot try to be an astronaut. The classes are just things you need to be naturally talented at, or have such extensive training that you have skills built by years.

Wait, let me guess. Something along the lines of "Combat Balance", "Trap Choice" or "Everyone must be good at combat as this is the only fun part of the game"?

None of those, and none of those are things I've ever advocated for or championed.

 

[Derren]

If you want to have many-years long training rules, I think he can.

He also could, within days, if he were a little bit stronger. No year long training required.