Multiclassing saves

[iwatt]

This might be slightly OT, but what's the rule for save and class defense progressions in d20 Modrrn?. BAB has the same 1/1 3/4 and 1/2, but I can't find what the progresion rules are for saves and class defense. My only source is the SRD, and I haven't made a very comprehensive search either, so be lenient if I've missed something obvious

 

[Tessarael]

Grog wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean here. For any class that doesn't have a +1 BAB/level progression, the BAB of the class' first level is always +0. It doesn't matter what level the character is when he multiclasses.

Sure. If you want to maintain BAB 1/1, you can only multiclass to classes with BAB of 1/1. However, for less than BAB 1/1, there is a "right" level to multiclass at to maximize your BAB.

Quick example:
-------------------
Suppose I'm trying to make an 12th level character with Weapon Specialization, Rogue abilities, and some Rogue prestige class. The best option min/maxing is Fighter 4, Rogue 4, Rogue-prestige class 4 (with same BAB and save progression as Rogue).

My BAB is no worse by multiclassing than if I'd gone Fighter 4, Rogue 8, yet my saves are substantially better with the additional class. BAB is +12 in both cases.

In the first case, saves are +4/+1/+1, +1/+4/+1 and +1/+4/+1 for a total of +6/+9/+3.

In the second case saves are +4/+1/+1 and +2/+6/+2, for a total of +6/+7/+3.

i.e. I pick up +2 to Reflex saves by multiclassing and getting the +2 at 1st level.

This is fixed by what I posted above, you'd end up with saves of +6/+7/+3 in both cases.

 

[BarkingDeathSquirrel]

This might be slightly OT, but what's the rule for save and class defense progressions in d20 Modrrn?. BAB has the same 1/1 3/4 and 1/2, but I can't find what the progresion rules are for saves and class defense. My only source is the SRD, and I haven't made a very comprehensive search either, so be lenient if I've missed something obvious

I think that the base classes use a "medium" save instead of a good save (ie: it's not +2 at 1st level of the class). Not sure though, my only source is the SRD plus some reviews I've read here...

 

[ergeheilalt]

Another issue to consider is Favored Class and Multiclassing Penalties...

A character who has 5 levels in various classes is going to have to maintain equal levels in every class they have. If they slip out of balance, the suffer a 20% xp penalty. That would definitely put a wrench in their works. That penalty, when not enforced, can lead to +20 saves...

Erge

 

[ShadowX]

Grog wrote:


Sure. If you want to maintain BAB 1/1, you can only multiclass to classes with BAB of 1/1. However, for less than BAB 1/1, there is a "right" level to multiclass at to maximize your BAB.

Quick example:
-------------------
Suppose I'm trying to make an 12th level character with Weapon Specialization, Rogue abilities, and some Rogue prestige class. The best option min/maxing is Fighter 4, Rogue 4, Rogue-prestige class 4 (with same BAB and save progression as Rogue).

My BAB is no worse by multiclassing than if I'd gone Fighter 4, Rogue 8, yet my saves are substantially better with the additional class. BAB is +12 in both cases.

In the first case, saves are +4/+1/+1, +1/+4/+1 and +1/+4/+1 for a total of +6/+9/+3.

In the second case saves are +4/+1/+1 and +2/+6/+2, for a total of +6/+7/+3.

i.e. I pick up +2 to Reflex saves by multiclassing and getting the +2 at 1st level.

This is fixed by what I posted above, you'd end up with saves of +6/+7/+3 in both cases.

I think he was refering to taking 10 different classes to get good saves. If you only take 1 level of a class only the 1 BAB\level classes will ever add to your BAB. Of course a good min maxer will find the best level to cut off progression of the class. Also some people think that min\maxers are super specialized or something. Its minimize your weaknesses and maximize your strengths, thats not being super specialized.

 

[FungiMuncher]

In one of my games, a friend has an 8th level character with 6 different classes (no experience penalty!). They're all fighter type classes, so his BAB is on par with a "monoclassed" fighter, but his Fort save absolutely rocks, and his Will save stinks. Yeah, he becomes buddies with the enemy spell casters quite easily.

Even without this extreme example, I still don't like these particular rules. I don't get it. The designers made an exception for skill points at first level. Why couldn't they have made something similar for saves? The extra high saves cause headaches for the DM, the extra low saves cause headaches for the character's allies (we gotta save his hide all the time...)

 

[the Jester]

Saving throws tend to get better with multiclassing because it's an option for diversity/defense rather than focus/offense. It isn't a bug, it's a feature, and one I rather like. I haven't had a problem with this, even though one pc imc has something like 8 classes.

 

[alaric]

I just don't see a problem with the way saves work. If someone wants completely destroy their BAB and class abllities, then take their skills and feats and tailor then so they fit into half a dozen prestiege classes, just so they can have a good (or even 3 good) saves, that's fine. It's self balancing. Sure they may be able to walk right through fireballs and lightning bolts, but they won't be able to fight worth anything, and have little in the way of spells or special abilities to help them out there. And if worst comes to worse, there's always rule 0, if you think that having 9 classes is excessive make the player justifiy taking a class in character.

 

[Darklone]

The only problem I see here are Prestige Classes. If you stick with the coreclasses, it will average out or make your buddy strong in one regard and weak in two others.

If you use too many PrClasses from preferably different publishing companies and add them... then your problem is NOT multiclassing.