Multiclassing Suggestions

[Cheiromancer]

I'm tinkering with the multiclass rules. I figure I'm going to use the fractional BAB rules, as listed in UA p. 73.

Good BAB is +1, medium is +0.75, poor is +0.5.

I thought, though, that I would do saves a little differently:

Your first class level determines which saves receive a one-time bonus: +2 for good saves, +1 for medium (if you use this saving throw category) and +0 for poor. After first level determine for each save totals based on what classes it is good, medium or poor.

Good saves is +0.5, medium is +0.4, poor is +0.333...

Multiclassing like crazy doesn't yield super high bonuses- this method keeps your saves similar to a single classed character.

This made me think a little bit more about the significance of the first character class. It has a big influence on skills (since there is the quadruple load of skills), hit points (max hp on that first dice), and now saves. What else could plausibly be added to make your first level significant later in your career?

I was thinking that weapon and armor proficiencies could be set by your first level. If you spent your youth training as a cleric, a little fighter training improves your BAB, but you don't become familiar overnight with all martial weapons and Tower Shields.

Is that too harsh?

 

[JimAde]

I think it's a great idea, but might need a little modifying. Instead of saying you get NO new proficiencies with a later level, you could let the player choose some. Maybe:

Fighter: 2 weapons and Tower shield, 1 more weapon each fighter level until they have them all (which seems unlikely )

All others: 1 weapon if the new class gives proficiencies the character didn't have before, 1 more every other level until you got 'em all.

It's obviously more bookkeeping, but it might get the flavor you want without hosing somebody who wants to be a fighter but took something else first.

 

[ARandomGod]

I'm tinkering with the multiclass rules. I figure I'm going to use the fractional BAB rules, as listed in UA p. 73.

Good BAB is +1, medium is +0.75, poor is +0.5.

I thought, though, that I would do saves a little differently:

Your first class level determines which saves receive a one-time bonus: +2 for good saves, +1 for medium (if you use this saving throw category) and +0 for poor. After first level determine for each save totals based on what classes it is good, medium or poor.

Good saves is +0.5, medium is +0.4, poor is +0.333...

Multiclassing like crazy doesn't yield super high bonuses- this method keeps your saves similar to a single classed character.

This made me think a little bit more about the significance of the first character class. It has a big influence on skills (since there is the quadruple load of skills), hit points (max hp on that first dice), and now saves. What else could plausibly be added to make your first level significant later in your career?

I was thinking that weapon and armor proficiencies could be set by your first level. If you spent your youth training as a cleric, a little fighter training improves your BAB, but you don't become familiar overnight with all martial weapons and Tower Shields.

Is that too harsh?

Using fractional BAB and saves is a good rule... As would be stopping the high save bonuses for massive multiclassing.
To be honest, I don't see that much of a problem with the save bonus thing, though... I always saw it as making up for the loss of higher level abilities that single class people get.

Your proficiencies being set at first level though... really, while I see a realism reason for wanting this, I see it as only limiting roleplayability, character flexibility, and further punishing those who want a character that's not thought all the way out before taking even one level.
Want to be a fighter magic user? Well, you've just screwed yourself if you wanted to have started as a mage. Whereas if you started as a fighter, good for you!

I see a similiar issue with skill point allocation at first level. IF you EVER want to take even one level of rogue, you're just a moron for not having that be your first level. In fact, you almost may as well throw the character away and start over, it can easily make that much difference.
Which is why in my campaigns I rule that if you ever multiclass into a class with a higher base skill point set than any you've had before, you get the difference *4 ... or to say that you get more points to equal if you had started out in the highest skill point class available (And not to say that if you start as a ranger, then goto fighter, then rogue, you get 6*4 +2+ int bonus, you'd get 2*4+6+int bonus, difference of ranger to rogue.)

 

[Cheiromancer]

IF you EVER want to take even one level of rogue, you're just a moron for not having that be your first level. In fact, you almost may as well throw the character away and start over, it can easily make that much difference.

I can see how my proposal regarding proficiencies would make the same thing true for a Fighter. "If you EVER want to take even one level of fighter...etc."

Maybe your way is best- try to make it so the order of taking classes doesn't matter. With regard to skills it shouldn't matter if you are a Ranger 1/Rogue 1 or a Rogue 1/Ranger 1. Should one devise a similar rule for hp? A sorcerer 1/barbarian 1 has (4+6.5) 10.5 hp while a barbarian 1/sorcerer 1 has (12+2.5) 14.5 hp. Should one add (new hit dice - 1st level hit dice)/2 hp when this happens?

I don't see that much of a problem with the save bonus thing, though... I always saw it as making up for the loss of higher level abilities that single class people get.

That's a really good point.

 

[ARandomGod]

Maybe your way is best- try to make it so the order of taking classes doesn't matter. With regard to skills it shouldn't matter if you are a Ranger 1/Rogue 1 or a Rogue 1/Ranger 1. Should one devise a similar rule for hp? A sorcerer 1/barbarian 1 has (4+6.5) 10.5 hp while a barbarian 1/sorcerer 1 has (12+2.5) 14.5 hp. Should one add (new hit dice - 1st level hit dice)/2 hp when this happens?

Hmmm ... "(new hit dice - 1st level hit dice)/2 hp " is a decent alternative. I think it might be a good enough house rule. Although you need to remember to make the HD rolled for that level be less to take into account the automatically gained HP's... Yea, that would work fine, if perhaps be a little math intensive. I can garuntee you that noone who this affects is going to mind that bit of math.

I have a different alternative that I've been debating doing next time we generate. Although this is more of a completely different HP system, it does even out the above problem.
As opposed to getting full HP at first, you always get 50% of your HP, and roll for the second 50%
IE:
Instead of d4, 2 + d2 (3 or 4 base HP per level.)
Instead of d6, 3 + d3 (4-6 base HP)
Instead of d8, 4 + d4 (5-8 base HP)
Instead of d10, 5 + d5 (6-10 base HP)
Instead of d10, 6 + d6 (7-12 base HP)

This would obviously be a boon to any class, only slightly weakening the healing classes... by proxy. It makes the mages very happy, while preventing a barb who rolls poorly from having fewer HP than the mage! Which can certainly happen in the current system. I have a friend in one campaign who has three levels of barb, and rolled a one each time.
And it would more than remove the "penalty" for taking a low HP class first.

 

[Navar]

Since you already have UA, you could use the weapon group feats, and just give the fighter one at every level, something with good BAB one every other level, something with medium BAB one at every 3rd level, and a wizard/sor one every 5 levels.