Multiple arms and LA

[reapersaurus]

El Morte - that's exactly the example I was going to use.

It seems fairly straight-forward that an extra set of arms is worth +1 from the Sahaugin example, at least in my eyes.
It's not like WotC has ever stated there's a "prorated" discount for abilities once you pay for a normal race (the Sahaugin LA going from +4 to +5 when given arms)

Also, evilDM - don't quote me on it, but I don't think you're right on that 2 greatswords interpretation.
If you have a source, I'd be interested in reading up where you got that...

 

[evildm]

Also, evilDM - don't quote me on it, but I don't think you're right on that 2 greatswords interpretation.
If you have a source, I'd be interested in reading up where you got that...

I'm still not entirely certain either. In the 3.5 MM under the Multiweapon Fighting feat (p304) it says that one hand is primary, while all others are off-hand. Strength Bonus under Damage on p134 of the 3.5 PHB says 1/2 str bonus to damage for off-hand usage, and 1 1/2 for two-handed usage. I'm not entirely certain which you'd use as it's both two-handed and off-hand. I can't find anything that explicitly handles this situation anywhere in the core rules or Savage Species.

I guess it would make more logical sense to use 1 1/2 str bonus to damage regardless of whether the hands are primary or off-hands, in which case my statement in the post above that you mention is probably wrong.

Also, I'd remembered seeing the Sahuagin example somewhere in the book, but I couldn't find it (I didn't check the tables, stupid me), so I didn't want to mention it in case I was wrong. Thanks for mentioning it ElMorte.

One other thing I just remembered is that in Savage Species on p11-12 under Natural Weapons (even though 4-arms alone isn't technically a natural weapon routine) it adds +1 LA (and only +1 LA) if the natural attack routine grants a number of attacks per round earlier than a fighter of equivalent hit dice.

 

[reapersaurus]

I can't find anything that explicitly handles this situation anywhere in the core rules or Savage Species.

I haven't either, and I've been actively looking for almost 2 years.

 

[retan]

I think that I read this somewhere:

- You receive full strength bonus for your primary arm
- You receive half strength bonus for all secondary arms
- When wielding a weapon in multiple arms, total the strength bonus for those arms

So in your example of wielding two greatswords, the one wielded with the primary arm would receive 1.5* strength bonus (1 for the primary arm and 0.5 for one secondary arm) and the other one would receive 1* strength bonus (0.5*2 for two secondary arms). If the same character was wielding the greatsword in all four arms, the strength bonus would be 1 + 3*0.5 = 2.5

-- Retan

 

[woodelf]

I think that I read this somewhere:

- You receive full strength bonus for your primary arm
- You receive half strength bonus for all secondary arms
- When wielding a weapon in multiple arms, total the strength bonus for those arms

So in your example of wielding two greatswords, the one wielded with the primary arm would receive 1.5* strength bonus (1 for the primary arm and 0.5 for one secondary arm) and the other one would receive 1* strength bonus (0.5*2 for two secondary arms). If the same character was wielding the greatsword in all four arms, the strength bonus would be 1 + 3*0.5 = 2.5

-- Retan

Seems like you're all ignoring the logistics of the matter: i'm not sure someone with 4 arms, set like our own but with one set above another, *could* wield two greatswords. If you did it the same way we do--opposed arms in pairs--it seems to me the two swords would get in each others' way constantly. And i just don't think human arms are hinged right such that two arms, one right above the other, of the same size, could effectively work in concert on leveraging a big stick (of which a sword is just a fancy case). Nonetheless, it *is* fantasy, so i could maybe accept a creature wielding a greatsword in its right arms, and another in its left arms--essentially duplicating two-rapier technique, but writ large, and with more leverage. Even then, i'd think it's as much a matter of body mass as leverage--and two arms on the same side of the body, facing the same way, won't give near the leverage as two arms facing opposite directions, working across the body. Similarly, i'm not convinced that 4 arms could effectively wield a sword that a similar-sized creature with 2 arms couldn't.

So, IMHO, the advantage of more arms isn't power/leverage, it's number. I'd definitely let a multi-armed character use extra small weapons (anything one-handed). And i can see letting them get extra power out of really big weapons (despite my misgivings, this is fantasy), provided they could bring more than 2 arms/hands to bear (frex, there's nowhere to put 2 extra hands on the handle of a gladius). And i think a multiarmed character should get some sort of advantage when using just one multi-hand weapon (i'm thinking of the cool moves a thri kreen could do with a quarterstaff)--whether that's a bonus, or extra attacks, or something else. And, of course, multiple arms could make weapons possible that others can't even touch (multi-strung bows come immediately to mind). But i just have trouble seeing how a thri kreen, say, would actually use two two-handed swords.

Besides, as a player, i'd probably go more for the "i ready my bow, raise my shield, drink the potion, and with my free hand..." strategy than just using all those extra hands for more/bigger weapons.

 

[woodelf]

I think that I read this somewhere:

- You receive full strength bonus for your primary arm
- You receive half strength bonus for all secondary arms
- When wielding a weapon in multiple arms, total the strength bonus for those arms

BTW, this was just bugging me: in RL, most people are stronger with their off hand. I can see two-handed use only being 1.5x as effective as one-handed use, but i'd say that off-hand use should get just as much bonus to damage as primary-hand use. Less bonus to hit, sure, but not less bonus to damage.