Multiple Cloud of Knives Spells

[Felon]

To those familiar with the cloud of knives spell from the PHBII:

If a character casts cloud of knives multiple times and their durations overlap, can the character toss more than one blade per round? Firing a blade is a free action, not swift, so it seems doable.

 

[Pinotage]

There's nothing I can think that would prevent it. Couple with a flaming sphere or two and you can have a blast throwing magic around.

Pinotage

 

[Sejs]

Off the top of my head I can't think of anything technical that would prevent it...


That having been said, there's no way in hell that I'd let that fly. Far too open to possible abuse.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Is it Target: You or Effect: One cloud of knives?

-Hyp.

 

[MarkB]

Is it Target: You or Effect: One cloud of knives?

-Hyp.

Target: You.

One thing that might technically prevent this is that you get to fire a knife "each round as a free action at the beginning of your turn". If you've already taken a free action to fire a knife, is it still the beginning of your turn? If not, you can't fire any more.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Target: You.

Then wouldn't multiple castings simply overlap and extend the duration?

Much like casting 3E Shield twice didn't result in two disks of force?

With the first casting, you become a creature under the effects of Cloud of Knives. With the second casting, you are still a creature under the effects of Cloud of Knives... it's just harder for a Dispel Magic to make you not a creature under the effects of Cloud of Knives.

I have a couple of quibbles about some of the wording, but the general theme of the answer from the 3E Main FAQ seems reasonably on track:

Can you cast two shield spells and cover yourself against
attacks from anywhere on the battlefield?

No. The spell’s target is you (the caster), so when you cast it
you get a disc of force you can use for defense. If you cast the
spell a second time, you still have a (single) disc of force you
can use for defense. If the spell’s target was the disc (or if the
spell was an area of effect spell) you could have more than one,
just like you can summon more than one monster or create
more than one wall of force. The target is you, however, so you
can have only one shield spell running at a time.

The closest fit in the core 3.5 rules:
Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.

So if we had a CL 11 Cloud of Knives and a CL 10 Cloud of Knives on the same person, only the CL 11 would apply.

If both are CL 11, then this rule is not an exact fit - they are not 'at different strengths'... but presumably the same principle (as illustrated by the 3E Shield answer) holds. (One could, perhaps, argue that two otherwise identical Cloud of Knives spells with different remaining durations are operating at different strengths...?)

-Hyp.

 

[Felon]

Another question that occurs is: are the knives actual weapons? Can they be used as a delivery system for spells like PHBII's blade of blood?

 

[Dog Moon]

Another question that occurs is: are the knives actual weapons? Can they be used as a delivery system for spells like PHBII's blade of blood?

Hrm. Flame Arrow could be cool.

 

[shilsen]

Another question that occurs is: are the knives actual weapons? Can they be used as a delivery system for spells like PHBII's blade of blood?

IDHMBIFOM, but I believe Blade of Blood explicitly says that its effect ends if the weapon leaves your hand, so it wouldn't work through Cloud of Knives.

 

[moritheil]

Of course, the DM is explicitly permitted to disallow large numbers of free actions - so even if RAW suggests that this spell could be stacked dozens of times, RAW also allows the DM to draw the line somewhere.