multiple cohorts and leadership.

[krupintupple]

is it possible to take the leadership feat more than once? if not, is there a feat that allows one to take additional cohorts?

just curious, is all.

 

[blargney the second]

There's argument that you can take Leadership, Dragon Cohort, and Undead Leadership, allowing you a cohort from each.

 

[Corsair]

I had a plan for a character who would take Leadership, Dragon Cohort, and Dragon Familiar. The plan was for both the Leadership cohort and Dragon Cohort to be weaker dragons types (pseudodragon and a wyvern) advancing in Dragonfire Adept for breath weapons and shapechanging, while having a shapechanging familiar (Wyrmling silver).

Also, of course, he was going to be a summoner.

 

[aboyd]

The Leadership feat is the one feat that actually has text in it saying that this is an area that is heavily dependent upon the DM. There isn't a lot of specific text about all the nuances (can you take it twice, can your cohort take it, who plays the role, is the cohort limited to NPC-only classes like Adept, and so on) precisely because your DM is supposed to say what he's comfortable with.

However, I can say one thing. Regardless of what your DM allows, having multiple characters to play (assuming your DM gives you the character sheet to play) is VERY time-intensive. Other players WILL get annoyed with you if you take up too much table time. I suspect a fighter would do wonderfully with a cohort -- both characters just "hit" and are done. But a wizard or cleric? That can devolve into a long chain of "what spells/wands/potions/scrolls do all of us cast?" If you each then cast Summon Monster or Spiritual Weapons or the like, you can end up having to roll for 10 or 20 attacks on your turn. Your friends will quickly not like you for that.

So be careful. It's a powerful feat, so it's tempting to try to get away with as much as you can. I've found that even if your DM allows you to push it to the limits, you may find that a single dip into that well is best.

 

[krupintupple]

on the topic of leadership and its effects, i was curious about followers as well. basically, how do you run them? are they literally a huge gaggle of people that swarm around the PC as if they were a movie star? i'd think not, as they'd die in droves during a combat encounter, being some 6 or more levels below the PC's ECL.

alternately, are they more representative of people in the community that back and support the PC, akin to people who support a local political or religious leader? i was thinking about this idea, that they'd have their own lives and whatnot, but would look to the PC as a defacto leader for inspiration and advice. the only downside would be if the PC move around a lot, would they move too?

my current idea is to merely have them attracted only if the PC builds a permanent stronghold - a friend on these boards told me to play it this way - kinda like back in the old 2e days. that way, if someone doesn't want a huge group of liabilities...er...followers hanging around them, they don't get them.

your thoughts on any of these questions?

 

[irdeggman]

If a feat's text doesn't say you can take it multiple times (e.g., toughness) then you can't.

Leadership has no such text, so by the RAW no you can't.

But as pointed out it does have specific text about DM interaction, etc.

 

[roguerouge]

Think of followers as roadies, groupies, your agent, your manager and the hardcore fans who put up fliers about your concert in their city. They're not on stage with you, but they make your everyday life easier, provide a couch to crash on, and sometimes make you money.

 

[roguerouge]

In 1 PC campaigns, giving two cohorts that lag 3 levels behind the PC is sometimes a house-rule.

 

[aboyd]

If a feat's text doesn't say you can take it multiple times (e.g., toughness) then you can't.

Where is that, in RAW? I've just looked in the PHB, the PHB errata, and the FAQ on feats, and I'm not finding that text.

 

[aboyd]

on the topic of leadership and its effects, i was curious about followers as well. basically, how do you run them?

Since the feat can be pretty disruptive, you should expect that there is no standard here. DMs all over vary wildly here.

Some DMs play the cohorts & followers. Some limit them to NPC classes. Some limit them to "save your bacon" roles -- a ghost that swoops in to save the party from a TPK, but is otherwise in the background, doing little.

Some DMs just let the player roll up extra characters and play them -- full cash, real PC classes, the works.

My DM gave me a selection of NPCs from the game that already knew me and had a favorable impression. The NPCs had "real" PC classes (cleric, fighter, and so on), but they were all pre-built, and most had commoner stats or slightly better. So my job was to interview them, pick one, learn that character's backstory, and then get the character sheet and roleplay it as best as I could. The DM has overruled a few of my decisions. Sometimes I put my cohort into the thick of things, and the DM is like, "No, the character became a cohort instead of a leader so that this kind of trouble wouldn't happen, pull that cohort back."

He's mostly right, he sticks to the backstory well.

are they literally a huge gaggle of people that swarm around the PC as if they were a movie star? i'd think not, as they'd die in droves during a combat encounter, being some 6 or more levels below the PC's ECL.

That's the followers, not the cohorts. And yes, they don't follow around like adoring fans. But they're super-useful if your DM allows certain things.

My followers... well, for example I have 3 gnomes of the Expert class, and I was allowed to stat them out using commoner stats, and I hyper-optimized them for alchemy skill. The three of them are able to churn out 2 flasks of Alchemist's fire a week (on average) for free. I do have to pay a small fee to feed them, but it's way less than the flasks normally cost.

Followers make good spies. Followers make good plot hooks. Followers make good sherpas. Followers make excellent organizers of other staff in a stronghold. Also, they generally have loyalty beyond what hired staff would have. There is not writing to explain this, but consider this: you hire staff for a task, the DM can (and as many of us have experienced, will) have those staff members be cowards, stupid, etc. But rarely have I seen a DM mess with cohorts & followers, because then the DM is messing with a feat. That can get into "unfair!" accusations real fast. You know, "You haven't undermined the fighter's cleave feats, so why are you undermining my Leadership feat?"

So yeah, generally they're loyal.

the only downside would be if the PC move around a lot, would they move too?

There is a penalty in the DMG for moving around too much. You lose followers. And there is a bonus (+2 to your score, which gains you more followers) if you have a stronghold they can stay in.

My DM and I have somewhat relaxed that rule. My followers ARE in my stronghold, but the assumption is that eventually they will found some roadside shrines. This is because my character is a cleric of Fharlanghn, the god of roads & travel. It's kinda appropriate for those believers to follow the teaching of their god and get out walking.