D&D 5E Multiple reactions replacing Legendary Actions?!

[the Jester]

Seems more like a semantic change than a rule change.

It has massive game implications. For instance, look at how the new playtest document changes shocking grasp. I'm pretty sure that it removing reactions never was a problem before, but now that they're shifting LAs to reactions, it's a major issue. (The claim that removing reactions was too powerful was never borne out in play in my experience; that clause made SG interesting and tactically useful, and led to tactically meaningful decisions.)

This is, in my opinion, change for the sake of change that not only doesn't improve the game meaningfully, it has knock on complications that are bound to be missed in the redesign. Having a special extra type of actions (or two, including lair actions) is good for the game IMHO.

 

[overgeeked]

It has massive game implications. For instance, look at how the new playtest document changes shocking grasp. I'm pretty sure that it removing reactions never was a problem before, but now that they're shifting LAs to reactions, it's a major issue. (The claim that removing reactions was too powerful was never borne out in play in my experience; that clause made SG interesting and tactically useful, and led to tactically meaningful decisions.)

This is, in my opinion, change for the sake of change that not only doesn't improve the game meaningfully, it has knock on complications that are bound to be missed in the redesign. Having a special extra type of actions (or two, including lair actions) is good for the game IMHO.

If the designers don’t spot that or referees are so beholden to RAW that they can’t see that as a problem, then they deserve to have that one cantrip destroy their games. That would really be hilarious.

 

[RoughCoronet0]

I believe that is why the playtest Shocking Grasp now only stops opportunity attacks, not all reactions.

 

[DaedalusX51]

They should just change it to the creature can’t take reactions this turn.

 

[the Jester]

I believe that is why the playtest Shocking Grasp now only stops opportunity attacks, not all reactions.

Yes, but my point is that there's no need for the change. Leaving LAs as is allows SG to stay as is, and it keeps it more interesting and meaningful than just removing opportunity attacks, especially if reactions are going to be more common and varied.

 

[overgeeked]

The new shocking grasp:

“Lightning springs from your hand to deliver a shock to a creature you try to touch. Make a melee spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 1d8 Lightning damage, and it can't make Opportunity Attacks until the start of its next turn.”

 

[overgeeked]

Yes, but my point is that there's no need for the change. Leaving LAs as is allows SG to stay as is, and it keeps it more interesting and meaningful than just removing opportunity attacks, especially if reactions are going to be more common and varied.

Reactions won’t be “more common and varied” without the change to LA.

 

[DEFCON 1]

There has always been a slight disconnect between the name 'Legendary Action' and the types of creatures who received them or had them available. A CR 3 creature looking as though they should be legendary (because they had 'Legendary Actions'), could often feel a little odd. ike they were legendary but only slightly powerful at CR3? Kinda feels weird. So switching things around so that creatures could have more off-turn abilities without having to imply they are creatures of legend is a good change in trying to marry mechanics and fiction.

That being said... due to the fact that Legendary Actions could be variable in power by having them spend different amounts of Legendary Action points to trigger is a good mechanical framework that I hope does not get lost completely (although it might be due for a name change.) Having Legendary/Advanced/Dynamic Actions (however you call them) and Mythic Actions (which I think are also great to keep when you want to have actual legendary creatures that have multiple "phases" or "evolutions" during a battle)... allow for more varied types of solo monsters. Which is really the whole point of all of these things... giving solos more things to do against all the party every round.

 

[billd91]

There has always been a slight disconnect between the name 'Legendary Action' and the types of creatures who received them or had them available. A CR 3 creature looking as though they should be legendary (because they had 'Legendary Actions'), could often feel a little odd. ike they were legendary but only slightly powerful at CR3? Kinda feels weird. So switching things around so that creatures could have more off-turn abilities without having to imply they are creatures of legend is a good change in trying to marry mechanics and fiction.

That being said... due to the fact that Legendary Actions could be variable in power by having them spend different amounts of Legendary Action points to trigger is a good mechanical framework that I hope does not get lost completely (although it might be due for a name change.) Having Legendary/Advanced/Dynamic Actions (however you call them) and Mythic Actions (which I think are also great to keep when you want to have actual legendary creatures that have multiple "phases" or "evolutions" during a battle)... allow for more varied types of solo monsters. Which is really the whole point of all of these things... giving solos more things to do against all the party every round.

They could also have just called them something like Boss Actions and implied their use for boss monsters, not just legendary ones. I’ve been using them in creatures since about level 6 or so, specifically to bolster the action economy of significant enemies.

 

[Quickleaf]

For me, the problem has always been reconciling what Legendary Actions or Legendary Reactions (a bunch of us have been homebrewing with those for years) is more narrative than mechanical. A multi-headed hydra? A super-fast monster? Easy to explain it acting off-turn. A lich or a sphinx? That's less a concrete explanation and more a hand-wavy "cause it's special."

Mechanically, when Legendary Reactions function like other reactions, spell and effects that shut down reactions can be a disproportionately powerful debuff on these newer legendary monsters, for ex:

• Arms of Hadar (PHB, pg. 215)
• Confusion (PHB, pg. 224)
• Shocking Grasp (PHB, pg. 275)
• Slow (PHB, pg. 277)
• Staggering Smite (PHB, pg. 278)
• Tasha's Mind Whip (TcE, pg. 115)