Multiple Simultaneous Free Actions?

[irdeggman]

Is everything I do in the same round "simultaneous?" If so, how do I open a door and walk through it in the same round? How do I draw my sword and attack with it?

You are applying real world definition to a game situation.

"Simultaneous" as used in the thread means occuring on your turn in the initiative order - since all of your actions occur on your turn (except for immediate actions) they are considered simultaneous in teh vague D&D combat system.

Otherwise when people move at what point in time do they pass through a threatend square? And how can someone move 30 feet in the same amount of time it takes to make a single attack with a sword. D&D combat system is very vague and that needs to be kept in mind when trying to do an analysis of the actions or else you will go crazy with it.

 

[Vegepygmy]

"Simultaneous" as used in the thread means occuring on your turn in the initiative order - since all of your actions occur on your turn (except for immediate actions) they are considered simultaneous in teh vague D&D combat system.

If that is so, then simultaneity is not a bar to performing any combination of actions in a turn, since it is well-established that you can "simultaneously" perform two (or more) mutually exclusive actions in a single round (e.g., move through a door and open it).

But I don't think it is so. If I said I was going to attack with my sword, then move 20 feet and draw my sword as a free action (allowed because I have at least +1 BAB), would you allow it because all of my actions are "simultaneous?" Or would you point out to me that I can't attack with my sword until I first draw it, so if I want to draw it as a free action (as part of my regular move), I have to perform the move action before I attack?

Otherwise when people move at what point in time do they pass through a threatend square?

Does it matter? I can't think of any reason we would need to know that. All we need to know is whether the opponent is capable of making an attack of opportunity at that time. Exactly when that moment in time occurs is irrelevant, isn't it?

In D&D, the order of actions matters greatly; the "timing" of them does not.

 

[irdeggman]

Does it matter? I can't think of any reason we would need to know that. All we need to know is whether the opponent is capable of making an attack of opportunity at that time. Exactly when that moment in time occurs is irrelevant, isn't it?

If the exact moment is irrelevent, then what constitutes "simultaneous" is likewise irrelevent isn't it?

In D&D, the order of actions matters greatly; the "timing" of them does not.

The reason I mentioned it was that there have discussions about how far someone moves in relation to arrows flying and other people moving, etc. Some people extrapolate how long does it take to do certain actions and then try to put them into detail of when they actually occur in a combat round - makeing the assumption that the round lasting approx 6 seconds is in fact an absolute measurement and law.

The order of action (even within one's own turn) matters but only in the aspect for logic {which really tends to get in the way of the game itself}). But for all essential purposes all actions taken on a character's turn in the initiative order occur simultaneously. Even though you need to draw your weapon before you can make an attack and if you have a +1BAB then you need to move while drawing your weapon, etc.

 

[ValhallaGH]

But for all essential purposes all actions taken on a character's turn in the initiative order occur simultaneously.

No they don't.

Find me anything in 3.x rules that supports your claim and I'll be open for discussion. Until then, your position is hollow, untenable, and wrong.

Good gaming.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

"Simultaneous" as used in the thread means occuring on your turn in the initiative order - since all of your actions occur on your turn (except for immediate actions) they are considered simultaneous in teh vague D&D combat system.

While I completely and utterly disagree with this position, I'll ignore that for a second. I don't understand how you expect this argument to sway the consensus of "Yes We Can!" to the OP's question. If all actions in a round are simultaneous, then all that matters is whether or not you can take multiple (simultaneous) free actions in a turn. If you can, the OP's fatespinner example works just fine. If you can't...you've effectively just ruled that you can only take one free action per round. Unless you can show me anywhere, anywhere at all in the rules that says this or implies it was the intent...I call bs.

Otherwise when people move at what point in time do they pass through a threatend square? And how can someone move 30 feet in the same amount of time it takes to make a single attack with a sword. D&D combat system is very vague and that needs to be kept in mind when trying to do an analysis of the actions or else you will go crazy with it.

I'm doing just fine, thanks.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

So much rudeness!

Sorry I asked the question.

 

[Vegepygmy]

If the exact moment is irrelevent, then what constitutes "simultaneous" is likewise irrelevent isn't it?

Possibly. It depends on what you mean by "simultaneous."

Taking the example I've presented (attack + move/draw weapon): if by "simultaneous" you mean it doesn't matter whether the attack is made first or last, because everything is happening on the actor's turn anyway, then no, that's incorrect. The move has to happen first, and as a result of that, the actor may no longer be in position to attack after the sword is drawn.

If you mean something else by "simultaneous," it may indeed be irrelevant. As I said, it rarely (if ever) matters "when" in a round something happens, but the relative order of actors and their actions matters greatly.

The reason I mentioned it was that there have discussions about how far someone moves in relation to arrows flying and other people moving, etc. Some people extrapolate how long does it take to do certain actions and then try to put them into detail of when they actually occur in a combat round - makeing the assumption that the round lasting approx 6 seconds is in fact an absolute measurement and law.

I agree with that. Trying to figure out if a standard action takes 3.1 seconds or 4.0 seconds is like asking what noise green makes; it takes "1 standard action" worth of time.

The order of action (even within one's own turn) matters but only in the aspect for logic {which really tends to get in the way of the game itself}).

I don't agree with that sentiment at all, unless you're using "logic" to mean something different than I imagine. Which is entirely possible; I'm still not sure we're using "simultaneous" to mean the same thing.

 

[irdeggman]

Spin Fate and Seal Fate from the Fatespinner prestige class. Both are free actions to modify the DC of the save and the saving throw of the target. Combined that's up to a -15 swing...

Once a day (limit of seal fate) and only on creatures with hit dice that do not exceed the fatespinner's.

I don't see where there is a restriction placed that would cause the fatespinner not to be able to apply both of these abilities to a spell he cast that round - which seems to be the intent of the question.

The number of free actions a character can perform in his turn is of course subject to a DM's ruling.

 

[irdeggman]

I agree with that. Trying to figure out if a standard action takes 3.1 seconds or 4.0 seconds is like asking what noise green makes; it takes "1 standard action" worth of time.

Which is why I think it is better to look at action types as an amount of effort not as a length of time(also helps to explain why a 20the level fighter can get in more attacks within the same amount of "time" as can a 1st level fighter - it is just "easier" for him becasue of the amount of effort required due to his skill by that level).

I don't agree with that sentiment at all, unless you're using "logic" to mean something different than I imagine. Which is entirely possible; I'm still not sure we're using "simultaneous" to mean the same thing.

Probably.

Bottom line for the situation in question - it really doesn't matter simce the obvious major intent of the fatespinners abilities are to affect his spell effects - and I see no restrictions placed that would prevent him from applying both abilities to a spell he casts that round.

 

[Eloi]

So your Fatespinner chef is about to serve up a gourmet pain omelet, and he happens to have two extra-special ingredients he might choose to add, to give it that extra "Pop!"

Selecting and adding these ingredients is a free action for each. So would also be grinning, winking, and/or mentally communicating to one's Familiar, "Voila! He is served".

Since they are free, we just throw them right in. They contribute to the experience, and are supporting elements. Masterful chefs do it all in one pass, with flying spices, subtle moves, and confidence.

Clearly this is a very special guest, so we're going all out. Bon Appetit!