Multiple Swift Actions

[DanMcS]

You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. However, you can perform only a single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take.

Suppose my sorceror knows a spell with a casting time of 1 swift action. He wants to cast it twice in one round.

He can only perform 1 swift action that round. The first casting is swift.

What about the second casting? Is it: A) Impossible. B) A move action. C) A standard action.

Strictly by the rules, it would seem to be impossible, since both castings would be swift actions. Seems to me like it should be possible to cast the spell again with a longer casting time, based on the first sentence from the SRD- I can perform another swift action, but it affects my ability to perform other actions. I would probably guess that it would become a move action, but I'm unsure. Is this clarified anywhere?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Strictly speaking, it's impossible.

However, as a house rule, allowing multiple swift spells as standard actions would probably not be too onerous.

I would not make them move actions, as there is no precedent [AFAIK] for spells taking move actions to cast.

This will prevent someone from casting three spells in a round, which is probably important.

 

[DanMcS]

Strictly speaking, it's impossible.

However, as a house rule, allowing multiple swift spells as standard actions would probably not be too onerous.

I would not make them move actions, as there is no precedent [AFAIK] for spells taking move actions to cast.

This will prevent someone from casting three spells in a round, which is probably important.

I thought of that, but I'm not sure it's a big problem. It would basically be two quickened spells and a regular spell. So, two Q-dazes and a hail storm, all taking up 4th level spell slots. Not so terrifying. Two Q-magic missiles and a cone of cold, all 5th level? Two Q-cones of cold and a meteor swarm, all 9th level. Hmm, maybe not such a great idea. But in each case, it takes up a big chunk of your highest level spell slots to pull off one round of utter devestation.

I was thinking about it because I'm trying to come up with a action breakdown, like: an immediate action takes up your swift action for the next round- what happens if you have to do another one?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

an immediate action takes up your swift action for the next round- what happens if you have to do another one?

You're screwed.

 

[irdeggman]

I have problems with a system that allows a spellcaster to cast more than 2 spells per round.

That was one of the fundamental reasons that Haste was redone.

Now using a Swift spell as a standard action - I don't see why not. That would leave it at 2 spells per round (1 swift and one standard).

IIRC there are really very few spells that are swift (without using the Quicken Spell version) - Aiming at the Target, Assay Resistance, Blades of Fire, a few in some of the newer books I imagine. And the point of Quicken Spell was to allow a character to cast 2 spells in a round in the first place. Feather fall is an immediate action spell not a swift one.

 

[fett527]

Isn't this why the changed haste in 3.5? Casting more than once in one round.

 

[DanMcS]

I have problems with a system that allows a spellcaster to cast more than 2 spells per round.

That was one of the fundamental reasons that Haste was redone.

Now using a Swift spell as a standard action - I don't see why not. That would leave it at 2 spells per round (1 swift and one standard).

IIRC there are really very few spells that are swift (without using the Quicken Spell version) - Aiming at the Target, Assay Resistance, Blades of Fire, a few in some of the newer books I imagine. And the point of Quicken Spell was to allow a character to cast 2 spells in a round in the first place. Feather fall is an immediate action spell not a swift one.

The most useful example is from Complete Adventurer: Distract Opponent is a 1st level spell, as a swift action, that forces a target to will save or become flatfooted until his next action. What if I want to cast it twice?

I would like there to be a graceful devolution of action types. Everybody gets a swift action, a move action, and a standard action in a round. If you do two swift actions, the second one takes up your move action slot. If you do two moves, the second takes up your standard action slot. Unfortunately, this leads to being able to cast two quickened spells and a "1 standard action" spell in a round. I'm not sure this is broken, because you're taking a substantial penalty to do this- 4 spell levels for the quickening surcharge.

The problem with 3.0 haste wasn't that it allowed 3 spells in a round. It was that it allowed two of your most powerful spells in a round, since there was no quickening surcharge on the extra spell you got to cast due to haste.

 

[Brain]

The most useful example is from Complete Adventurer: Distract Opponent is a 1st level spell, as a swift action, that forces a target to will save or become flatfooted until his next action. What if I want to cast it twice?

I would like there to be a graceful devolution of action types. Everybody gets a swift action, a move action, and a standard action in a round. If you do two swift actions, the second one takes up your move action slot. If you do two moves, the second takes up your standard action slot. Unfortunately, this leads to being able to cast two quickened spells and a "1 standard action" spell in a round. I'm not sure this is broken, because you're taking a substantial penalty to do this- 4 spell levels for the quickening surcharge.

The problem with 3.0 haste wasn't that it allowed 3 spells in a round. It was that it allowed two of your most powerful spells in a round, since there was no quickening surcharge on the extra spell you got to cast due to haste.

I can see letting a swift action spell be cast slower as a standard action if the player wanted to do so. That is as far as I would go, however. Allowing spellcasting as a move action is asking for trouble. There are various ways of getting quickened versions of your most powerful spells. (metamagic rod, divine metamagic, sudden quicken, etc.)

 

[PrinceZane]

yeah, i would have to agree on the not a move action for casting. You could use the swift to move to standard I would think, but thats it - how i would rule it probably.

 

[irdeggman]

I agree. If you make a swift become a move then a spellcaster could cast 3 spells in a round (1 swift, 1 move and 1 standard) - back to the overpowering aspect. Especially since it could easily be done with Quickened Fireballs. Three in a round is just way out of balance, IMO.

Remember that most characters won't get to benefit from swift actions unless they are spellcasters. (It even points that out in CA).