Multiplying? Weapon quality

[HeavenShallBurn]

I just worked up an enemy based around the use of ranged weapons and my theme for them is the "steel rain" concept to put out as many strikes as quickly as possible from a distance.

I recall seeing a magic weapon quality somewhere that multiplied the number of projectiles striking a target. I know it wasn't splitting since that doubles the number and the ability I'm thinking of either tripled or quadrupled it.

But I'm drawing a blank on which book it appeared in except that it was WoTC. That's a lot of searching to do so if anyone can help me out I'd really appreciate it.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Found something similar in Serpent Kingdoms but it's a specific weapon rather than a quality. If I don't find anything better I'll make it a +3 quality based on the price of the weapon in the book. Now will check other FR books since it's more likely to be in there if it's anywhere.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Magic Weapon Special Ability

Manystrike: A manystrike weapon appears normal until used. When it strikes a target three phantom replicas of itself briefly spring into existence and strike the target as well before winking back into nothingness again. A manystrike weapon deals quadruple damage on each successful hit. Critical hits use the standard rules for multiplying effects. Ranged weapons with this quality bestow this power on their ammunition.
Moderate conjuration: CL10; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, major creation; Price +3 bonus.

 

[jedrious]

Magic Weapon Special Ability

Manystrike: A manystrike weapon appears normal until used. When it strikes a target three phantom replicas of itself briefly spring into existence and strike the target as well before winking back into nothingness again. A manystrike weapon deals quadruple damage on each successful hit. Critical hits use the standard rules for multiplying effects. Ranged weapons with this quality bestow this power on their ammunition.
Moderate conjuration: CL10; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, major creation; Price +3 bonus.

the Enhancement you're thinking of is actually Triple Throw from the ELH and it's much more than a +3 bonus

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

the Enhancement you're thinking of is actually Triple Throw from the ELH and it's much more than a +3 bonus

Thanks for the tip, I checked it out. It also reminded me how underpowered the ELH was.

After not being able to find the ability I was looking for (since I never used ELH for epic play) I created the quality based on the manyfang dagger from the Serpent Kingdoms book. It's a +1 weapons with the cost of a +4 weapon so the quality would be +3 equivalent. Compared to other +3 abilities it seems balanced. Slightly more damage than the alignment qualities (anarchic. axiomatic, etc) but doesn't bypass any broad categories of DR. So it looks fine to me.

 

[Avatar of the North]

weapon ability thread
http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-288540

Chapions of Ruin
+3 Bonus
Splitting

 

[Kelleris]

Thanks for the tip, I checked it out. It also reminded me how underpowered the ELH was.

After not being able to find the ability I was looking for (since I never used ELH for epic play) I created the quality based on the manyfang dagger from the Serpent Kingdoms book. It's a +1 weapons with the cost of a +4 weapon so the quality would be +3 equivalent. Compared to other +3 abilities it seems balanced. Slightly more damage than the alignment qualities (anarchic. axiomatic, etc) but doesn't bypass any broad categories of DR. So it looks fine to me.

As long as it only increases the base damage, maybe, though still too powerful, I think. If it also multiplies Strength damage bonuses and weapon enhancement bonuses to damage it's insane. If it multiplies dice-damage like sneak attack or skirmish it's just nutty-nutty-nutbar.

More generally, using the dagger from Serpent Kingdoms as a baseline is a bad idea. Part of the balance there is that you're multiplying a dagger's crappy base d4 damage. As a general weapon enhancement, the extra damage varies wildly by the original damage die, so it's extremely hard to balance properly. You could, say, have a storm giant with a monkey-gripped Gargantuan greatsword getting +18d6 damage from this ability with every swipe, which is disgustingly outside the bounds for a +3 enhancement ability. Granted, that's a corner case, but it does illustrate that, like multiplication effects in general, this will be hard to balance and generally not worth the trouble. Even something like a simple enlarge person spell will provide a giant jump in damage for an archer using a weapon with this ability. A greatsword with this ability in the hands of a perfectly normal human would grant +6d6 damage, which is more than a bit much for a +3 ability, for instance. Drop a 1st-level spell on him and he gains +4d6 damage!

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

As long as it only increases the base damage, maybe, though still too powerful, I think. If it also multiplies Strength damage bonuses and weapon enhancement bonuses to damage it's insane. If it multiplies dice-damage like sneak attack or skirmish it's just nutty-nutty-nutbar.

Only base damage, not strength or other add-ons like skirmish or sneak attack. I should have made that clearer in the wording.

Part of the balance there is that you're multiplying a dagger's crappy base d4 damage. As a general weapon enhancement, the extra damage varies wildly by the original damage die, so it's extremely hard to balance properly...Granted, that's a corner case, but it does illustrate that, like multiplication effects in general, this will be hard to balance and generally not worth the trouble. Even something like a simple enlarge person spell will provide a giant jump in damage for an archer using a weapon with this ability. A greatsword with this ability in the hands of a perfectly normal human would grant +6d6 damage, which is more than a bit much for a +3 ability, for instance. Drop a 1st-level spell on him and he gains +4d6 damage!

I could definitely tighten up the wording around just how much extra damage and how it's applied. What do you think of dropping it down to a simple flat +3 damage dice rather than using a multiplier? That's one dice higher than the alignment abilities while not bypassing alignment based DR.

I tend to let damage increase further than most because I use an armor as DR system which escalates so that by the time such abilities are being used there's enough leeway to smooth out all but corner cases. Still you're right it could do with some moderation.

 

[Kelleris]

What do you think of dropping it down to a simple flat +3 damage dice rather than using a multiplier?

Hmm... I think that's how I would do it, yeah.