D&D 5E Multiverse Theory and you

[Yaarel]

Can I raise a practical question at this point: without deities, where do your divine casters (Clerics, etc.) get their spells and powers from?

The divine power source is about a personal relationship with the universe around one, via symbols, archetypes, spiritual communities, meaningfulness, right-and-wrong, things that come with a sense of a "sacred" or "transcendence".

Xanathars talks about a Cleric of a "cosmic force". I feel this puts the finger on what all clerics are about. Whatever it is that a person perceives to be the deepest fundament of reality − that is the cosmic force by which the Cleric can resonate miracles. For polytheists, the gods are the deepest level of reality. But for some nontheists, enlightenment is the deepest level. And so on.

So, if the "weave" is a vague term to refer the way that a universe is inherently capable of magical effects, then:

• Psionic manipulates the weave directly − by ones own mind − because the weave is psychosensitive and entangles conscious intentions.
• Arcane manipulates the weave indirectly by manipulating the magical properties within natural objects.
• Divine manipulates the weave by means of oaths, ethics, symbols, archetypes, worldviews, and a personal relationship with the universe.
• Primal manipulates the weave psionically, but focuses animistically on the minds of the elements of earth, water, air, fire, plus plants.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Can I raise a practical question at this point: without deities, where do your divine casters (Clerics, etc.) get their spells and powers from?

Obviously, different games and settings handle it differently, but in Eberron, for example, divine power comes from an individual's faith, not the deity they follow. There's a running joke associated with the setting that you could worship your shoe in Eberron and still get cleric spells as long as you believed strongly enough. Furthermore, in Eberron, even the existence of the gods is a matter of faith - you can't just go talk to your patron deity in person as you can (at least in theory) in a setting like FR, where a visit to the realms of the gods are just a matter of finding a way there - which has the added benefit of enabling things like religious schisms, heresy, and extremism by allowing someone to deviate from the god's "official" teachings and still be able to tap into that divine power.

While Planescape generally goes the "divine power comes from the gods" route, it also has outliers like priests that worship specific concepts (like death) rather than a god associated with that concept, or even the Athar (a faction of atheists that don't view the "gods" as truly divine) being able to tap into power of the Great Unknown, the true "divinity" behind everything that they believe the "gods" are merely pretending to embody.

And then you have Dark Sun, where the gods are long gone and the closest things to clerics are the templars, who are more like warlocks drawing their power from the Sorcerer Kings.

So there are ways to make it work.

 

[Lanefan]

The divine power source is about a personal relationship with the universe around one, via symbols, archetypes, spiritual communities, meaningfulness, right-and-wrong, things that come with a sense of a "sacred" or "transcendence".

Xanathars talks about a Cleric of a "cosmic force". I feel this puts the finger on what all clerics are about. Whatever it is that a person perceives to be the deepest fundament of reality − that is the cosmic force by which the Cleric can resonate miracles. For polytheists, the gods are the deepest level of reality. But for some nontheists, enlightenment is the deepest level. And so on.

So, if the "weave" is a vague term to refer the way that a universe is inherently capable of magical effects, then:

• Psionic manipulates the weave directly − by ones own mind − because the weave is psychosensitive and entangles conscious intentions.
• Arcane manipulates the weave indirectly by manipulating the magical properties within natural objects.
• Divine manipulates the weave by means of oaths, ethics, symbols, archetypes, worldviews, and a personal relationship with the universe.
• Primal manipulates the weave psionically, but focuses animistically on the minds of the elements of earth, water, air, fire, plus plants.

Interestingly enough, though the terminology differs the underlying idea isn't all that far from how I do it.

Instead of a "weave" I have it that magic is a universal force of physics, on par with gravity etc.; different terminology and rationale but the end result is very much the same as yours.

Psionics access it directly and innately, much like yours.
Arcane access it by mathematical formulae, study, repetition, concentration, and - often - interaction with the physical world.
Divine access it via, in effect, allowing a deity to push it through them; the divine caster acts as more of a conduit and shaper.
Bards access it via manipulation of sound.

I don't have Primal as such. Many creatures with innate magical abilities can access magic simply due to what they are, and even more creatures (i.e. anything not seen on real-world Earth) require ongoing access to background magic in order to survive at all. And yes, this means an Elf caught in a null-magic zone for any length of time is in a heap o' trouble!

 

[Yaarel]

Interestingly enough, though the terminology differs the underlying idea isn't all that far from how I do it.

Instead of a "weave" I have it that magic is a universal force of physics, on par with gravity etc.; different terminology and rationale but the end result is very much the same as yours.

Psionics access it directly and innately, much like yours.
Arcane access it by mathematical formulae, study, repetition, concentration, and - often - interaction with the physical world.
Divine access it via, in effect, allowing a deity to push it through them; the divine caster acts as more of a conduit and shaper.
Bards access it via manipulation of sound.

I don't have Primal as such. Many creatures with innate magical abilities can access magic simply due to what they are, and even more creatures (i.e. anything not seen on real-world Earth) require ongoing access to background magic in order to survive at all. And yes, this means an Elf caught in a null-magic zone for any length of time is in a heap o' trouble!

Weave and laws of physics are the same.

Psi as mind, same.

For me, Arcane is protoscience. So the "formulas" are figuring out how to exploit the magical properties in natural objects, in the same way that pharmaceuticals exploit the chemicals in plants and nuclear physicists exploit the energy in atoms.

The difference between a Wizard and a Sorcerer is, the Wizard is the scientists who builds a machine. The Sorcerer is the result of an experiment, that modified the body into the machine. The Sorcerer is learning how to pilot the machine.

The Paladin is divine, and lacks deities. The source of magic is the cosmic power of a sacred oath.

For me, the Bard is a psionic class. Telepathic mind manipulation, psychometabolic healing, precognitive divination, even telekinetic sound energy: all psi.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Too bad.

I love the Wizard as the hero of the story.

C. S. Lewis had the Christian mistrust of magic users. They are always villains in his books.

 

[Yaarel]

C. S. Lewis has the Christian mistrust of magic users. They are always villains in his books.

The biblical point of view includes heroes who are various kinds of miracle workers, even protoscientists (magi). I was hoping that Lewis felt comfortable with that archetype for his heroes.

 

[Guest 7034872]

So I am curious. I have been DMing for decades and I don't know if I have ever used "multiverse" storytelling. While PCs have done some planar travel, especially when I have run Ravenloft or Planescape stories, I don't think I have ever had PCs traveling from one setting to another, as in, I have never had players transported from Krynn to Toril for example. But with the emphasis placed on the concept with recent releases, I am curious. Am I an anomaly?

So have you done worldhopping as a feature in a campaign? Care to talk about it?

I've not done it, but I am just starting a campaign in which hopping across possible worlds ('a la David Lewis) is, in principle, possible. I so emphatically say "in principle" because I hope it doesn't happen at least until the very end of the campaign: plane-hopping is something I love, but hopping across one's own alternate choices is.....complicating. Very, very complicating.

Still, I'm leaving it in there as a quiet option because it's their adventure, not mine, and I generally subscribe to the approach that says if there's nothing in there that could give the DM serious headaches, the campaign is incomplete. Improv, wot wot?