Mutants & Masterminds Questions

[Piratecat]

Which formula? I was trying to write it both ways, and it's possible (nay, probable) that I wrote it badly:

My error, I was referring to the wrong book! According to Ultimate Powers, p. 108, the formula is:

Power cost = (effect + extras - flaws) x rank + (feats - drawbacks)

So I'm pretty sure feats are counted separately from the alternate power pool.

 

[Relique du Madde]

Okay, I see what you mean. Thanks.



I'm a little confuse on the math (how you got the 24pp cost). The way I'm reading the rules is: A Blast 5 at 2pp/rank would be 10pp, Dynamic feat 2pp, Dynamic AP Deflect 2pp, and AP Dazzle 1pp for 15 pp.

Woopse, I forgot to change the 5 to a 10 during the revision of the post. Originally that blast had 2 extras (penetrating and area) but I decided to get rid of them.

Anyways, the Dynamic Power Feat only costs 1 power point. When you create a dynamic alternate power all you are doing is creating an alternate power then automatically adding the dynamic power feat to it which is why it costs 2 points (+1 pp for the Alternate Power +1pp to make it dynamic). Or at least, that's how I've always interpreted the rules.

 

[Villano]

Woopse, I forgot to change the 5 to a 10 during the revision of the post. Originally that blast had 2 extras (penetrating and area) but I decided to get rid of them.

Anyways, the Dynamic Power Feat only costs 1 power point. When you create a dynamic alternate power all you are doing is creating an alternate power then automatically adding the dynamic power feat to it which is why it costs 2 points (+1 pp for the Alternate Power +1pp to make it dynamic). Or at least, that's how I've always interpreted the rules.

Okay, I've got it now. It's was just a little confusing for me going from the set levels and abilites of most games to the "you need to buy everything" format of M&M. Thanks for all the help, everybody.

 

[coyote6]

I have the M&M 2nd Ed and I don't see a listing for "container". But, reading the AP section of the feats, it does look like you are right that the feats don't add to the cost of the AP.

Alternate Power is itself a feat; it (and Dynamic Alternate Power) is the feat that doesn't count towards the points you have available in your array for APs. All other feats (IIRC) count.

I'm still confused about the use of Deflect as an AP, though. When you Deflect, you block (but instead of blocking melee attacks, you block ranged). According to the "blocking" definition:
[...]
Since I have to give up my attack in order to deflect, I'm not sure if I can make Deflect my AP of an attack power. In other words, if I have to give up my Strike in order to Deflect, can I even make Deflect an AP of Strike?

You can; since you can't generally use both at the same time, why should you pay full cost for both?

Of course, your GM might quibble about it (M&M depends upon players and GMs to control some abusive possibilities). But I don't think this is abusive; this is, in fact, part of what arrays are supposed to do.

(Besides, Deflect isn't really terrifically useful unless your Deflect ranks are much greater than your Defense bonus -- you only really need to deflect something that's hit you, meaning the attack roll has to be high enough to hit already. If your Deflect ranks are less than or equal to your Defense bonus, you have a less than 50% chance of suceeding. Deflect, IMO, is a power that needs a little tweaking to make it useful, without being overpowered. Note that I have no idea how to do that. )

 

[coyote6]

My error, I was referring to the wrong book! According to Ultimate Powers, p. 108, the formula is:

Power cost = (effect + extras - flaws) x rank + (feats - drawbacks)

So I'm pretty sure feats are counted separately from the alternate power pool.

That's how you figure the cost of any power; it's not a prescription on what determines an array's available points. Note that it comes before the Array entry, for instance.

Consider this, from UP p. 109:

"Power feats within a particular Alternate Power are considered part of it and not feats of the Array itself. Thus points for the Array must be assigned to those feats in order to make that Alternate Power active, whether the feats are in use or not"

If you can get power feats as part of an AP, and they count as taking up points, then feats on the base power have to count towards the points you have in your array; it would be a pointless restriction otherwise, as you could simply change the base power to be a slot with no feats, or (at worst) be forced to add some kind of dummy power (Environmental Control) with no feats.