My 2nd Playtest Review (with Encounters!!)

[Fallen Seraph]

Shields give a bonus to AC and Reflex Defence.

 

[frankthedm]

Remember that scene in the LOTR movie where the back rank of elf archers shot through their own ranks at the charging orcs? 4E lets everyone do that. From a sea of kobold minions to a 5’ wide hallway of orc javeliniers.

why is the mage easier to hit in the back row? I assume he still has soft cover. Only the shoot into melee penalty was removed, but he usually is not in melee when he is at the back row... also he has an AC of 15 instead of the rather usual 10 of 3.x.

Hardly. In 3e Mages generally had Mage Armor up, at least a point of Dex and cover was a 4 point mod. 19 AC was significant at when low level foes generally had +3 to +4 to hit on ranged and most did not have much ranged damage since you had to have javelins or expensive bows to get a damage bonus. And very soon the shield spell was added in, that cranked the back row AC to 23.

In 4E:

*Monsters tend to have better ranged attack bonuses, specifically designed to prevent PCs from having unhittable ACs for many levels
*Monsters get ranged damage now without heavy treasure investments.
*PC AC’s start higher, BUT those same AC’s are not allowed to spike up with just a few spells/ buffs.
*Cover is a measly 2 points.

Being in the back row matters a lot less when everyone has Improved Precise Shot Jr. and your foes allies have their hit detection turned off when they launch attacks.

All it takes is 3 fewer points of AC to make shooting the back row a net gain for missile fire.

 

[Jhaelen]

Thanks for sharing your playtest review!

1) Clerics may not be mandatory, but man oh man do they make a difference.

It's a pity we don't have a warlord pc to playtest. I'm very interested in seeing how he compares to a cleric.

On a slightly different note:
Since the wizard seems to be the only controller class we'll have for a while, I wonder how well a party without a wizard would do. Since monster numbers seem to be higher in 4E I would think it's a pretty important role to fill.

 

[illithian]

Hardly. In 3e Mages generally had Mage Armor up, at least a point of Dex and cover was a 4 point mod. 19 AC was significant at when low level foes generally had +3 to +4 to hit on ranged and most did not have much ranged damage since you had to have javelins or expensive bows to get a damage bonus. And very soon the shield spell was added in, that cranked the back row AC to 23.

Yes but a level 1 mage in 3.5E would have no 1st lvl spells left if he used both shield and mage armor, and would be close to useless in combat anyways. 3 x 0 lvl spells left isnt much. Neither would he be much use in the next encounter as shield has a duration of 1min/lvl and Mage armor has a duration of 1 hr/lvl. A 4E mage would still be able to participate in combat, or at least I hope so as I havent playtested yet.

 

[frankthedm]

Yes but a level 1 mage in 3.5E would have no 1st lvl spells left if he used both shield and mage armor, and would be close to useless in combat anyways. 3 x 0 lvl spells left isnt much. Neither would he be much use in the next encounter as shield has a duration of 1min/lvl and Mage armor has a duration of 1 hr/lvl. A 4E mage would still be able to participate in combat, or at least I hope so as I havent playtested yet.

Doing both at first level did leave the caster fairly useless, but the "And very soon the shield spell was added in" meant in a few levels as the PC can start using cheap wands or scrolls to padd thier ammo reserves. The cashflow of the typical game provided more than enough coin to do so.

 

[JesterOC]

Since the wizard seems to be the only controller class we'll have for a while, I wonder how well a party without a wizard would do.

I am running my tiny group through the return of the burning plague. The group has just three players (Fighter,Ranger,Cleric). The adventure is for 4-6 players but I did not scale it back! I know I guess I am mean.

--Spoliers for Return to Burning Plague--

Anyway they are having knock down drag out fights. The wyrmpreist was tough and dropped two PC's into negatives with his lightning breath. Luckly the Cleric was running up the ramp while this happened and was able to finish off the preist and heal the Fighter and ranger.

After that they rested for the day. When they came back they fought the Skeletons. ANd the priest was dropped to 4 hitpoints in what felt like 2 rounds (I don't recall but it was tough on him, he was the first target and was caught on fire). They almost fled, but the ranger kept going. In the end they all were one hit away from death by the time the big baddie finaly was dispatched. They all had used their dailies and all had their moral shaken. I am guessing it will be a five minute workday for them. All in all they seem to do OK with 4-5 kobolds. But the higher level guys provide quite a challenge.

I can't wait to see what happens with the Hobgoblins

JesterOC

 

[FitzTheRuke]

On a slightly different note:
Since the wizard seems to be the only controller class we'll have for a while, I wonder how well a party without a wizard would do. Since monster numbers seem to be higher in 4E I would think it's a pretty important role to fill.

In my experience you can do without the wizard far easier than you can do without the cleric, but both can be done.

I expect that will switch at higher level play, though.

Fitz

 

[Connorsrpg]

Maybe the wizard 'at the back' needs to play smarter.

*Find cover of his own. (Inc other allies).
*Don't go to the back. Stand right behind a defender. That would make them hard to get at.
*Target those archers first.


Of course they probably did all those things. I think this may also bear in wizard players' minds as to what powers they choose. Maybe this will make barriers and spells that alter terrain (to hinder mobile attackers) become better choices than just choosing all attack powers.

Mind you, I, as a DM, wouldn't have all creatures run around party to attack wizards, unless that is part of their schtick. Would kobolds be willing to put themselves that far away from their allies? (As long as there is somewhere for them to run).

Just some quick thoughts.

C