My Barbarian envies the Tempest Fighter

Prestidigitalis

First Post
The Barbarian in my head, that is. You see, I'm trying to build a Half-Orc Rageblood Barbarian, and every time I look at the nice damage totals I can achieve, a little tiny corner in the back of my brain (I think it's called the Tempestual Lobe) cries out "Hah! That's nothing compared to what an Iron Armbanded, Bloodclaw Urgroshed, Dwarven Weapon Trained, Dual Striking Tempest Fighter can do."

I know that the Barb can use a Bloodclaw too, and gains a bit back with Rampage and Swift Charge. It also looks like Rages are just a *bit* more powerful on average than fighter stances. But still. The Tempy has a big head start.

Mostly, I want to play the Barb because it looks fun -- charging all over, roaring and snorting, dripping blood. I don't care if the Barb is a *little* behind, but I'd like to think there is something I'm missing; is there?
 

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Obryn

Hero
Well, keep the recent updates to Dual Strike in mind if you're looking into this. :) Tempest Fighters' at-will ability to deal massive damage to a single target was substantially nerfed in July. Thank goodness!

-O
 

Saeviomagy

Adventurer
Yeah, for a start the new dual strike requires you to split it between two targets.

That said, it's still an issue with the ranger.

In fact every single multiple-attack granting power in the entire game seems to have been balanced around the idea that static bonuses will be insignificant compared to weapon damage, which is basically never ever true.

If you really want to fix things (and thus make roughly 50% of the ranger powers actually viable: currently there are levels where your choice is one attack for 3[w] OR 3 attacks for 1[w] each, which is no choice at all), then you need to limit characters to only getting their damage bonuses on one hit per target per round.
 

DracoSuave

First Post
Those 'inviable' ranger powers have a tendancy to do other things besides 'attack for 1[W]' however. And also, if you're not two-weapon fighting (Like, say, you don't want to have to redraw your bow every time you need to melee something, or you're a beast master, or you multiclassed into ranger to get the sweet utility dodging feats) then those powers have a lot more upside.

Moar Damage isn't always the key to building a good striker.
 


Dr_Sage

First Post
Amen to that. I've built my halfling artful dodger Rogue with that in mind and he is a lot of fun and very effective.


I agree.

No offense, but some people are a bit obsessed with the striker/defender/controler/leader roles.

barbarian can do many things a fighter can't (not effectively at least). And in terms of damage i think you should play a barbarian if you enjoy yourself doing massive damage in 1 hit. Its different tham hiting 3 times to do more damage.

Regards!
 

Destil

Explorer
In fact every single multiple-attack granting power in the entire game seems to have been balanced around the idea that static bonuses will be insignificant compared to weapon damage, which is basically never ever true.

If you really want to fix things (and thus make roughly 50% of the ranger powers actually viable: currently there are levels where your choice is one attack for 3[w] OR 3 attacks for 1[w] each, which is no choice at all), then you need to limit characters to only getting their damage bonuses on one hit per target per round.
Banning the armbands of iron power and their ranged equivalent tend to help a lot, too...
 

On Puget Sound

First Post
Massive single damage is also better against Resist All or Resist Weapon Damage, since the resistance comes off of each attack separately. Don't know that there are a lot of critters out there with those resistances, but anyway....
 


Obryn

Hero
Eh? There's lots of stuff with Resist All. And lots of ways to get it.

Nothing that says Resist Weapon - but the Grick is close.
 

DracoSuave

First Post
Not to mention, Resist Weapon doesn't do exactly what you might think it does. It's not the same as Resist Untyped damage.

The first affects weapon powers, regardless of damage type, the other affects typeless damage, regardless of accessory.

Swordmages and Eldritch Blasting warlocks could certainly tell you how that affects them.
 

Mathew_Freeman

First Post
Don't forget, also, that the Tempest fighter doesn't have all those neat abilities that grant extra attacks or charges that the Barbarian does.
 

Obryn

Hero
Banning the armbands of iron power and their ranged equivalent tend to help a lot, too...
I completely agree with this, and have done so.

I have less objection to the items that give you +2 to basic melee/missile attacks, so those stick around, but the Iron Armbands and Bracers of Archery (I think) are simply gone.

-O
 

Prestidigitalis

First Post
I had forgotten about the errata on Dual Strike.

Hmmm. So now you lose out on the focus fire, and it's useless if you can't get next to two creatures. On the other hand, you don't waste the second attack if the first one downs the creature. Definitely a nerf though.

Still, if the Dual Wielder faces a single foe, or can only get next to one foe at a time, there is nothing to stop him from using Brash Strike with the d12 end of the Urgrosh. That's still a pretty big hit. The only thing missing relative to the Barbarian is the d6 from Howling Strike or the uber-shiftiness of Pressing Strike... Okay, that's actually a lot to give up.

Thank you for making my Barbarian's rainbows shiny again!
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
This is one of the problems that creep up when following the "wishlist" method of treasure distribution in the DMG. Character creation is not just "best class for the concept"... but now it also seems to involve finding the best combo of class plus an entire list of specific magic items that best suits. The fact that you plan out a character based around knowing you are getting w, x, y, & z items (practically) automatically, then you get the problem the OP has.

His character concept is not a question of barbarian vs tempest... as he himself says, it's barbarian vs Iron Armbanded, Bloodclaw Urgroshed, Dwarven Weapon Trained, Dual Striking Tempest Fighter. And speaking personally, that just kinda rubs me the wrong way. I am not a fan of character reward being an integral part of character build. I certainly understand how the game has evolved to this point, and why it is a legitimate question for a lot of players who are building characters... but I still can't help feeling a bit squirmy when I hear about it. My problem, obviously... I just wish it hadn't gotten to this point is all.
 

infocynic

First Post
You can use it adjacent to only one creature, but you might as well make a melee basic or your other at-will, unless you have reason to suspect that after the first attack you might be adjacent to a different creature. :)
 

Prestidigitalis

First Post
His character concept is not a question of barbarian vs tempest... as he himself says, it's barbarian vs Iron Armbanded, Bloodclaw Urgroshed, Dwarven Weapon Trained, Dual Striking Tempest Fighter. And speaking personally, that just kinda rubs me the wrong way.

She, not he. But your point is pretty much what I was trying to get at. The static bonuses skew things horribly.

[I initially wrote more, but stupid ENWorld logged me out before I hit "Submit Reply". Grrrr.]
 

Herschel

Adventurer
Well, keep the recent updates to Dual Strike in mind if you're looking into this. :) Tempest Fighters' at-will ability to deal massive damage to a single target was substantially nerfed in July. Thank goodness!

-O

Not only that, but I would argue the class has MORE appeal now (at least for me) that it's not just an "I do damage" look but actually as an at-will way to mark multiple foes.
 

Eldorian

First Post
Banning the armbands of iron power and their ranged equivalent tend to help a lot, too...

I'd like to ban all static bonuses granted from items. Definitely the ones that add to damage, like the Iron Armbands, Radiant weapons, staff of ruin, etc.
 

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