My C&C campaign is kicking some major butt

Akrasia

Procrastinator
So my group wrapped up the 8th session of my new C&C campaign tonight. (I ran two 'one shot' sessions of C&C last fall before beginning the new campaign.)

It was a great session! Indeed, all of the sessions have been great (except for the one during which I was horribly hung-over -- but the players still seemed to enjoy it, especially once my voice went all scratchy after two hours).

My last campaign was 3.5 D&D, and lasted about 9 months (with mostly the same group). It went really well too, but I was frustrated for three reasons.

The first was that the campaign progressed too slowly for my tastes. Combat was always a huge drag -- we had to bring out the battle mats, set things up, get out the miniatures, etc. A game of 'Advanced Squad Leader' followed. While most of the players seemed to semi-enjoy this (especially one player who loved combat), I came to dread it. The last few sessions of the campaign were great, but only because I deliberately designed the adventures to minimize combat.

The second reason was that I hated prepping for the 3.5 games. I dreaded sitting down and statting up NPCs and complex monsters. This irritation infected my enjoyment of the sessions themselves. (Though, again, the players didn't seem to mind too much -- but they are not paying me to do this!)

The third (and IMO most important) reason is that, when DM'ing 3e, the 'rules aspects' of the game were continually salient. During the sessions, questions about whether doing x would provoke an attack of opportunity, and so forth, were ubiquitous -- as were issues concerning modifiers to actions, synergy bonuses for NPC skill checks, questions about whether x was an extraordinary ability or spell-like ability, etc. The rules were always 'in our face', and I hated that.

In contrast, I have had none of these problems with my C&C campaign. Indeed, I would say that while running a C&C session, "the rules fade into the background". This means that the emphasis can be on the story itself -- which makes me as a GM excited.

I also love the fact that it is extremely easy to tinker with the C&C rules. When DM'ing 3e I always felt uncertain about doing this, as there were always unintended consequences (e.g. I once tried to do away with 'attacks of opportunity' -- whoops!).

Just to be clear, I am (obviously) only speaking about my own experiences here. I have run two 3e campaigns now, and both times the same issues came up. These issues prevented me from enjoying the game as much as I thought I should. Obviously, many/most other DMs have not had the problems that I have had here. All the more power to them. But IME, 3e prevented me from focusing on the aspects of FRPGs that I love.

So, in contrast, running a C&C game is an absolute joy. I have complete mastery of the rules, and so I can focus on the role-playing and plot aspects of the game.

Which gets me to my main point: the key to any successful campaign is GM happiness. (Okay, I was semi-happy during the last 3e campaign as well, and the players seemed to like it. But I also found myself frequently cancelling sessions...)

If you have a GM who is enthusiastic about the system and campaign setting, then that will affect how the games actually proceed.

I can see this in my own group. One of my players was deeply hostile to switching over to C&C (as he felt it was really important to have 'feats' and all that crap). Yet he is loving this new campaign. The reason is simple: I am excited, and willing to invest my energy into characters, plot and NPCs. (I much prefer this to worrying about feats, skills, etc.).

In short, C&C made me happy to be a GM again. I was reminded of this tonight -- and wanted to share ('cause I subsequently went out for drinks, and am now semi-drunk).
:cool:
 

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Akrasia said:
In short, C&C made me happy to be a GM again. I was reminded of this tonight -- and wanted to share ('cause I subsequently went out for drinks, and am now semi-drunk).:cool:

Glad to hear it's working out for you! There's nothing like a game when everything clicks.
 

Akrasia said:
In contrast, I have had none of these problems with my C&C campaign. Indeed, I would say that while running a C&C session, "the rules fade into the background". This means that the emphasis can be on the story itself -- which makes me as a GM excited.

I always say, if you can't make ANY rules system fade into the background, the fault lies on the GM and/or players. I've run 3.5, seen 3.5 run, with minimal rules involvement. It's not hard. Why was it so hard for your group?
 

MrFilthyIke said:
I always say, if you can't make ANY rules system fade into the background, the fault lies on the GM and/or players. I've run 3.5, seen 3.5 run, with minimal rules involvement. It's not hard. Why was it so hard for your group?

Play style can be a big factor in this. The D20 Modern rules (which, as you know, are quite similar to 3.x) fade into the background nicely in our military style campaign, I love it. In contrast, an extremely similar system (3.5) becomes somewhat cumbersome and klunky when the exact same group of people (my group) play it. So, if your games focus on tactics and crunch, I suspect you are in heaven with your 3.x campaign. However, if you are like me, and wish to focus more on deep story and let the combats be more of an aside and less of a focus, then you might find a system like C&C or Blue Rose more to your liking. This is, of course, not an invariability. Some groups can have deeply involved stories with multiple arcs and not have their suspension of disbelief consistently hammered by the "break out the battle mat and minis" time of the session, but I have found it easier to manage this style of play with C&C. MrFilthyIke might be a paragon of DMing, but sadly, I am not. My players consistently love our games and I have a backlog of players that wish to join but I havent got the space for them. This is my gauge of a successful campaign, and I am a happy fellow for it. Also, in the post quoted above, Ike talks about placing blame. If you have to begin placing blame in a GAME, I suggest a sad state of affairs exists and some fresh air is in order. Why not just fix any issues (like akrasia has for his own game) and enjoy the game.
 

MrFilthyIke said:
I always say, if you can't make ANY rules system fade into the background, the fault lies on the GM and/or players. I've run 3.5, seen 3.5 run, with minimal rules involvement. It's not hard. Why was it so hard for your group?

:( Must we start with the insults so early in the thread? :(

Same thing here, Akrasia, and a good point. Castles & Crusades in my experience also tends to benefit the "table game" and my ability to build a richer campaign with better role playing (because I had more time to focus on the campaign instead of the adventures). The players aren't as likely to see the improvement as early as the GM, who encounters it right away. I had two of these, out of five players. Indeed, these two still legitimately enjoy the "squad leader" focus on tactics that 3E provides.

But the game is rocking. Great roleplaying, much more defined adventures, much more campaign flavor and depth, time available to work on NPC personalities -- I'm rejuvenated on fantasy role playing in a big way. Having a great time!
 

I am truely glad you're having fun with your game and the C&C rules.

And as Forest Gump said, "That's all I am saying about that!"
 

This will probably come as news to Mythmere, but out of the four of us, two really didn't want to change to C&C and two didn't care. The two of us who didn't want to change are having fun, mostly because Mythmere is having fun making up the campaign. We still don't like the C&C system, but we are enjoying our campaign. The other two players have come to dislike the C&C system itself, but they also continue to enjoy our campaign.

We've actually been house ruling and working around the problems without too much trouble as we are all relatively reasonable. And anyway, the system isn't the most important bit. Mythmere likes making up the world using C&C, so that's cool. I prefer to use 3.5e, though I don't dispute that I'll spend more time with the fiddly bits making up monsters and characters when my turn as DM comes up. But I like doing that.

Bolie IV
 

bolie said:
This will probably come as news to Mythmere, but out of the four of us, two really didn't want to change to C&C and two didn't care. The two of us who didn't want to change are having fun, mostly because Mythmere is having fun making up the campaign. We still don't like the C&C system, but we are enjoying our campaign. The other two players have come to dislike the C&C system itself, but they also continue to enjoy our campaign.

We've actually been house ruling and working around the problems without too much trouble as we are all relatively reasonable. And anyway, the system isn't the most important bit. Mythmere likes making up the world using C&C, so that's cool. I prefer to use 3.5e, though I don't dispute that I'll spend more time with the fiddly bits making up monsters and characters when my turn as DM comes up. But I like doing that.

Bolie IV

Well, it's obviously not news about the two who didn't want switch preferring 3E; both of you prefer to drop into the squad leader model for combats; which is fine. I prefer combats in which there's less counting of spaces and more events per minute, with fewer pauses for looking up rules.

It's news to me that the other two prefer 3E over C&C, but obviously you'd know. I'll point out a few things, though. First, this campaign, which people are enjoying, wouldn't be possible without the quicker prep time I get from using C&C rules. Second, there hasn't been any tension at the gaming table that I've seen so far - remember that things got so unpleasant during 3.5 that two of us took a prolonged break from gaming. That stemmed from two things, one of which was the character mismatch in roleplaying. The other, however, was the underlying tension about the pacing of the game. The pacing problem stemmed from using 3.5. It's easy to see the character benefits of 3.5. It's not so easy to see the ramifications to the game itself and how it's played. I may be deluded or wrong, but I see a clear link between 3.5 and the inter-player problems we faced. It caused tension.

Right now, we don't have to have you and E calculating the modifiers for C and S (and checking them for me). You don't have to maintain and update their character sheets on a computer for them. People don't wander away during the middle of combats while waiting their turn. Frankly, I'd like to have all the various options of 3E for character development, too, but not at the expense of the above problems.
 

Interesting view inside a campaign...and I have been getting some "walk away" lately as well...

And you are right. These kinds of issues are some of the most important in practice
 

TerraDave said:
Interesting view inside a campaign...and I have been getting some "walk away" lately as well...

And you are right. These kinds of issues are some of the most important in practice
*heh* A little dirty laundry there... :uhoh:
In the inevitable offline conversation, we discover that the other two are annoyed at the typos in the rulebook, not the actual C&C system, that Bolie won't sell me his old Greyhawk campaign materials, that Aftermath was a game too complicated for words, and that unless we dress up as doctors, we may have trouble finding a place to game this weekend unless HIPAA is suddenly repealed.

Never a dull moment...
 

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