My Changing Thoughts on Science Fantasy Games

[Stormonu]

Sorry guys, I'm not able to build a vision of a situation where a balanced campaign would result in something being missed. An example please

My thoughts go to the "Dying of the Magic" sort of worlds. Science is on the rise, and magic is becoming less common. People can't prove magic exists because it fails to work in the presence of the doubter, who is becoming more and more common. In this case, science is being to rule because it can flat-out cause magic to cease to exist. The PCs might be the last of the surviving mages, now practicing in secret behind a world cloaked from the mundane eye. Maybe the PCs have to protect the last living dragon, and magic will fade should the dragon cease to exist.

Mage the Ascension uses a form of this, with Paradox.

 

[GrimCo]

I love science fantasy, specially of space opera variety.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." I love that quote. Specially for post apocalypse setting when you can blur the lines between tech and magic nicely. Thundar the Barbarian is prime example of it.

In ttrpg context, it makes life easier. Take for example artificers thunder guntlets from 5e. They do 1d8 thunder damage on impact. Is it conducting magic or is it storing kinetic energy of movement and transforming it into sonic energy? Who knows. Same with lightning louncher. Does it channel magic or does it just uses static electricity created by friction in armor joints and gem is one big Lyden jar capacitor. In reality, it's both, rules and fiction wise. For some characters it's "magic", for other, it's just tech.

 

[aco175]

Wouldn't most of these things be levels of technology or advancement? If space aliens landed on Earth we might think that some of the stuff they have is magic if we cannot explain through science. If one of them could touch someone and cure cancer and says that it is his belief in god that allows him, we might think magic.

Maybe like Star Wars the whole of the galaxy contains peoples that magic alongside of mundane. Maybe it is just stuff we cannot explain.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

To comment on the balance issue of science vs magic: I think the issue often arises because in most magic-heavy settings, magic is limited by class: only the sorcerer and the wizard can blast people for 8d6 fireballs(or whatever). In sci-fi/fantasy, you can find the “tactical incendiary exploder gun” that does an 8d6 burst. The problem is this item can be used by any character, potentially an unlimited or multiple number of times per day and isn’t necessarily gated by level. In that scenario, tech can overshadow magic. The setting would have to be able to balance those issues.

 

[Cergorach]

I still love Shadowrun, but there the balance between tech and magic has changed over the 37 years it has existed... And whether you like one or the other depends on the people and the specific implementation of that balance. For me peak Shadowrun is the first three editions, with the last three editions they leaned far to heavily into the magic side and tried to 'fix' the tech from 80s cyberpunk... For me it was great that the 'fluff' insinuated that in certain parts of the matrix (Internet) might be magical in nature, when they made that the norm in later editions, it lost a lot of it's 'magic' for me. I also loved the link between SR and Earthdawn...

I love how Mage the Ascension incorporates magic into 'reality'.

But on the other side of the spectrum, I really liked the concepts of Dragonstar, and the new Dark Matter and Neon Odyssey look equally interesting, just like Starfinder.

 

[Staffan]

For starters, fantasy and science might each represent a faction. There's no imbalance to "correct" if those two factions are equally situated. (See also: espers vs. empire in Final Fantasy 6.)

There's also a strain on the "acquire the powerful artifact" plot. What's the point of questing for the ancient lava-sword when science has already created lightsabers? Or flip that around; explorers of the fantasy world have discovered a mysterious scientific thing: a grenade. Fire mages take note, and go back to business as usual without caring.

You can still have quests for MacGuffins, but they'll likely be desired for something they allow rather than something they themselves do. One example would be the Darksaber – sure, it's a nice weapon if you can master it, but the true power lies in its symbolism for the Mandalorians. A more technological example would be the Death Star plans: having those allows the Rebel Alliance to find a weakness in the Death Star, but they still need to have ships and pilots to exploit that weakness.

 

[Tonguez]

Wouldn't most of these things be levels of technology or advancement? If space aliens landed on Earth we might think that some of the stuff they have is magic if we cannot explain through science. If one of them could touch someone and cure cancer and says that it is his belief in god that allows him, we might think magic.

Maybe like Star Wars the whole of the galaxy contains peoples that magic alongside of mundane. Maybe it is just stuff we cannot explain.

Anyone remember the old Galaxy Rangers cartoon? Theres an interesting episode in which the Rangers visit the planet Tarkon, which on the surface is a medieval society which uses magical amulets, staves of telekinesis and sending stones. Anyway the psychic ranger Niko takes centre stage when they have to assist a local Shaman to heal the Heart of Tarkon.
Its eventually revealed that the Heart is an ancient organic Bio-computer, and that the magic of Tarkon is all technology run via interface with the Heart. Anyway it was a cool premise for a Sci-Fantasy in an otherwise Sci-Fi lite show.

Of course it doesnt always work - just look at the Midichlorian theory stuffing up the Force

Also has anyone else played Masters of Umdaar from FATE Worlds of Adventure - its unapologetically a toolkit to let you play Sci-Fantasy characters based on Master of the Universe, Thundaar etc. Being FATE the narrative first and lite ruleset but also lite on setting (ie it presumes that you already know the genre anyway)

You can still have quests for MacGuffins, but they'll likely be desired for something they allow rather than something they themselves do. One example would be the Darksaber – sure, it's a nice weapon if you can master it, but the true power lies in its symbolism for the Mandalorians. A more technological example would be the Death Star plans: having those allows the Rebel Alliance to find a weakness in the Death Star, but they still need to have ships and pilots to exploit that weakness.

Xyber-9 ran in 1999 for 10 episodes, but then was cancelled then revived a few year later. Anyway most of the show consisted of the protagonist and his 'magical artifact' Xyber-9 going on quest to recover lost tech which the Ancients buried before the great war..
When first found the protagonist uses Xyber-9 as a Mace and only later learns that it is an advanced Super-Computer able to interface with ancient tech.

 

[Deset Gled]

Anyone remember the old Galaxy Rangers cartoon?

 

[aco175]

Anyone remember the old Galaxy Rangers cartoon? Theres an interesting episode in which the Rangers visit the planet Tarkon, which on the surface is a medieval society which uses magical amulets, staves of telekinesis and sending stones. Anyway the psychic ranger Niko takes centre stage when they have to assist a local Shaman to heal the Heart of Tarkon.
Its eventually revealed that the Heart is an ancient organic Bio-computer, and that the magic of Tarkon is all technology run via interface with the Heart. Anyway it was a cool premise for a Sci-Fantasy in an otherwise Sci-Fi lite show.

I am always humbled by the fact that there are no original ideas.