D&D 4E My compiled list of 4E's WoWisms

[RigaMortus2]

That's not a WoWism. It's a MMOism and, before that, a MUSHism.

Now I have to define what I mean by "ism". Perhaps I am using the suffix incorrectly, but I take it to mean a sort of "trademark" or staple of that particular subject. In other words, if it exists within that subject (in this case, WoW) then it is an "ism" of it.

Others seem to think that it means that it was first introduced in that medium.

Perhaps I am using the term incorrectly, and that might be part of the confussion?

ism:
1. Action, process; practice
2. Characteristic behavior or quality

So to say that Talent Trees is an ism of WoW, would that not be correct? Even though other games have such a thing, the mere fact it exisits in WoW makes it an ism of WoW, does it not?

 

[RigaMortus2]

Which MMO has that? EQ1, CoX and WoW don't have that, off the top of my head.

You can critically heal in WoW. It works off of spell crit (same stat that determines when you crit off of damage spells)

 

[RigaMortus2]

Now, I will not deny the fact that D&D has been influenced by MMO's, but claiming that it all comes from WoW is an undeserved backhanded-complement.

I am glad we agree. For shame to anyone who thinks any of these ideas came solely from WoW. However, if you agree that WoW does have similiar features regardless if they invented the concept or not, then I've done my job

 

[RigaMortus2]

If you don't want to have a free-wheeling discussion, you shouldn't be posting this stuff on a message board. You need a blog.

Discuss away, just don't think I am going to be adding any suggestions to the list above simply because someone wants me to. Which was what I was trying to get at.

 

[Raduin711]

Not a mini's thing...

DM: The king asks you to save the princess. If you do so successfully, he will give you 200gp for the reward. Do you accept?
Players: Yes
DM hands players a quest card

Ah. Read the article.

This may be borrowed from video games and WoW, but on the other hand, it is something that D&D has always done, but this time in 3x5 inch cards. Why not give the players a card that says how much gold (and don't forget xp) you will get for doing x? It also seems to me that making the cards is kind of a fun way of leading the characters in different directions and seeing which way they go... like the example in the article. It's not that you couldn't do that before, but I think once you have a physical representation of the plot hook, it helps generate ideas.

I don't know, it just sounds like a good idea, so whether it is borrowed from WoW isn't that big an issue for me. And the article also says that this is just a suggestion, so I am guessing all it says in 4e is that players should get gold and xp rewards for meeting goals or "quests" which is nothing new.

 

[RigaMortus2]

A bit more detail is called for for those who didn't read the Wowwiki link:
The race/species we now know as Draenei used to be called Eredar, and were generally okay. A fallen Titan named Sargeras came to them and corrupted most of them through two members of their ruling triumvirate. Some that weren't corrupted saw the writing on the wall and ran like hell with the third leader. These renamed themselves Draenei. The name Eredar still applies to the demons.

So, the Draenei are not and never have been demons. Others of their race became demons, but they never were.

Brad

True...

Which is why I originally used the term loosely "demons" in my original post. But I think enough people have posted that Draenei are not demons to convince me, so I will remove this from the list.

 

[BeauNiddle]

Second, it is fine to describe a classes role, but I personally find it strange to give the role a different name than the class performing the role.

Because multiple classes can fill that role. Paladins are good defenders, Barbarian (if and when they turn up) will make good defenders. Rogues and Rangers are both strikers. Clerics and warlords are both leaders.


Think of it as a tree search when somebody first plays the game. Rather than listing 11 classes and 6 races and getting them to try and pick a combo from them you can instead ask a series of questions:

Do you want to defend your teammates, strike at the enemy leaders, control the enemies position on the battlefield or help others acheive their aims through teamwork. From there you can further narrow the field - do you want to strike the enemy at range or up close? Or do you want to lead your team efforts through healing and divine blessing or through martial skill and tactics?

The question is so obvious that most roleplayers automatically answer it without even realising there was a question. It's the skill of the designers (and all the people who made a similar realisation for all the other cRPGs out there) that they realised and quantified the question. For first time players or people who've come from other games (computer or not) it helps simplifiy the question of what they want to play and how they should play said choice (and also hopefully will mean they have more fun since they made a 'good' choice instead of hoping for a 'lucky' pick)

 

[RigaMortus2]

Ah. Read the article.

This may be borrowed from video games and WoW, but on the other hand, it is something that D&D has always done, but this time in 3x5 inch cards. Why not give the players a card that says how much gold (and don't forget xp) you will get for doing x? It also seems to me that making the cards is kind of a fun way of leading the characters in different directions and seeing which way they go... like the example in the article. It's not that you couldn't do that before, but I think once you have a physical representation of the plot hook, it helps generate ideas.

I don't know, it just sounds like a good idea, so whether it is borrowed from WoW isn't that big an issue for me. And the article also says that this is just a suggestion, so I am guessing all it says in 4e is that players should get gold and xp rewards for meeting goals or "quests" which is nothing new.

Yeah, I agree. We've always taken notes ourselves. Whether it is on purpose, on accident, or people (like myself) are looking waaaaay more into than we need to, the way they present the Quest Card idea instantly made me think of a quest log from a video game.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Not to mention that neither faction in WoW is inherently good or evil. They're just opposed to each other.

Weeeeeell, the Forsaken are attempting to poison/infect every living being (and undead beings) on the planet, including the other members of the Horde. I wouldn't call that a value-neutral behavior, myself.

The blood elves are openly leeching magical power from demonic beings, and their leaders are going further than that.

Trolls practice torture, including on beings after death.

Thrall allows demonic traitors to exist in his midst and more or less openly operate, to "keep any eye on them."

Tauren are the closest to being value neutral, but they're still zealots who murder civilian archeologists who show up in their (modern) homeland.

I know Horde players like to say the Horde are good guys, but it's hard to figure out who they're talking about, honestly.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Having dealt with Dragonlance gnomes extensively in Races of Ansalon, including a system for creating and using gadgets, I have to say that "gnomes with crazy gadgets" is barely scratching the surface when it comes to exploring the obsessive little engineer archetype. The first gnome in Dragonlance was a fighter, for instance.

I just find the "it's used in WoW so it's covered" argument somewhat odd when you look at everything else in the Wizards Presents preview books.

I think that just points to the fact that the big vocal gnome supporters on the development team were outnumbered by those who just weren't feeling them and wanted them shelved until that changed.

The Krynn/Mystara gnomish archetype works fine and could be made to work in even low-tech worlds by tweaking the premise. Or taking forest gnomes or some other subrace.

But there weren't enough of the people on the dev team who felt that way, so, exit stage left for now.