My conscience stopped me from submitting.

[Mouseferatu]

Without meaning to sound in any way insulting or patronizing, people who think they could market their own world and make more than $120K off of it don't know this industry.

You can't. Period. End of discussion.

Very few companies out there have the resources to market anything that big. As I understand it, most D20 companies feel they have a runaway bonanza best-seller on their hands if they sell 10,000 copies. Let's say it's a full-sized campaign book, costing $30. The profit margin on your average RPG supplement is less than 10%, or so I'm informed.

Think about that for a while. Think about the fact that the profit in question goes to all those involved in the product, not just the creator. Think about the fact that I'm talking about best-selling stuff. Think about the fact that many D20 companies lose money, at least at the beginning. Think about the fact that your average writer of RPG material gets between 3 and 5 cents/word. Think about the fact that those very few people who did manage to make a huge impact in the RPG industry--Gygax, for instance, or Greenwood--did so back when the field was far less crowded than it is now.

Now, I'm not saying people who choose not to submit are making a mistake. If creative control over this particular world is more important to you, by all means, try to publish it yourself. But if you held off because you thought you could make more money off it than the $120K, you made a very large mistake.

 

[Altin]

I have to say Ryan, speaking as a publisher, that if you want to 'make it' as a writer, you have to lose this attitude

Sad but true, the publishing industry is a place where publication depends just as much on how much you're willing to give up to be published as on what kind of writer you are (not that I'm bitter or anything ). I think, however, that Ryan was speaking of self-publishing which, while not a particularly practical way of making money (though a fairly good way to lose it) does allow him to retain creative freedom.

A good writer needs to be able to turn out not just one good idea, but several. He needs to work hard with all the material he has and learn how to reshape, redraft and repackage all his ideas.

If you mean 'reshape, redraft and repackage' in the sense of editing to improve them to his own standards, I couldn't agree more. If, however, you mean reshaping them to suit someone else's idea of what they should look like, I must dispute your definition of a 'good writer'. You are describing merely a 'flexible writer' or one who stands a chance (and no more than that) of being published by someone other than himself. However, that is only a good writer if publication is our only measure of worth, which one would hope is not the case.

So, redress your setting, make it a WotC winner, and submit it. There is only one person you are doing a dis-service to if you don't. . .

It all depends on how you define dis-service, I guess. I didn't, for the record, send anything in (for reasons which I won't go into here - suffice it to say that they weren't the same as Ryan's) but I can certainly empathise with where Ryan is comming from. Creative work can mean a lot to a person in ways which have nothing to do with money, so much that selling it to someone else (for whatever amount of money, you understand) would be something of a dis-service if they took it in directions one didn't approve of or executed it poorly.

Is this idealistic? Does it mean Ryan will have trouble 'making it' in today's cut-throat publishing world? Sure, but that doesn't disqualify it from being a valid argument. If someone has ideals which they value enough for them to feel bad about the potential of someone else screwing around with their work, then of course they are justified in not sending their entries in. Emotional strife is a terrible way of making a living, if you think about it.

Yours,
Altin

 

[Lizard]

What people aren't realizing is that even when you don't win, you've submitted precious ideas to WOTC that they have full access to use at their discretion, outside the domain of this current offering. The contract basically states that there is no guarantee of WOTC having not had the exact same idea that you have submitted. In fact, I see this whole contest more as an excersize by WOTC to collect a bunch of free, well developed ideas that they can use in whole or in part for furture products, with the actual winning campaign setting a secondary goal.

Bwahaahahh!!!!

If you think 'ideas' are precious, I hereby offer you a flat rate: I will send you ever world idea I have, as soon as I have it. You pay me 100 dollars per idea. I waive all copyright I hold to that idea, under current US copyright law. YOU get to develop the idea into a marketable product.

Do we have a deal?

 

[Mongoose_Matt]

Spot on, Lizard.

Ideas, in a creative industry like this one, are hardly at a premium. The guys who 'make it' are those who can consistently come up with new ideas upon demand and bend them to fit with what a publisher wants.

Speaking of which, isn't it time you sent a proposal through for a Quintessential book?

 

[RangerWickett]

In this case, it's not a matter of money. It is, as cliched as it sounds to say this, a matter of love. I want to be able to have the chance to write stories with the characters with whom I first came to understand my writing and storytelling skills. I've revised my own ideas dozens of times, because when I first came up with them, they were wimpy. It's not that I don't think I could come up with something just as marketable; I could, and indeed I did have a few ideas of what people might like to see that I could've tried to propose. But ultimately, I prefer to devote more of my efforts to writing the things I love, rather than just writing for a job.

Matthew, I appreciate the advice, and I have understood it for the longest time. Ideas are easy to come by. But really caring about a thing takes time. I don't have any illusions that I would've won, but I know I could've submitted dozens of world ideas, all of them potentially great settings. The problem would be, I wouldn't love those.

If I need to make a living, I'll be a teacher, or an editor, or a businessman. I write and tell stories because I love to do it, and I'm not going to turn a hobby and talent that I love into a career if it means I have to give up something I love.

So, now that I'm reminded of my labors of love, I suppose I'll get back to writing. Look for an update to my storyhours within the next week.

 

[phoamslinger]

What people aren't realizing is that even when you don't win, you've submitted precious ideas to WOTC that they have full access to use at their discretion, outside the domain of this current offering. The contract basically states that there is no guarantee of WOTC having not had the exact same idea that you have submitted. In fact, I see this whole contest more as an excersize by WOTC to collect a bunch of free, well developed ideas that they can use in whole or in part for furture products, with the actual winning campaign setting a secondary goal.

so if you're really afraid WotC is going to rip you off 10 years from now, here's what you do.

make another copy of your work and send it to yourself registered mail. when you get it back, file it away for the eventual court battle. the postmark is an effective copyright for your original ideas as long as the envelope hasn't been opened.

yes WotC has your signature on a contract, but that's for this contest. it's not for future uncredited work.

 

[Mouseferatu]

so if you're really afraid WotC is going to rip you off 10 years from now, here's what you do.

make another copy of your work and send it to yourself registered mail. when you get it back, file it away for the eventual court battle. the postmark is an effective copyright for your original ideas as long as the envelope hasn't been opened.

yes WotC has your signature on a contract, but that's for this contest. it's not for future uncredited work.

Legally, anything you write is copyrighted the instant you put it on paper.

However, the "poor man's copyright"--that is, mailing yourself something--is a myth. It's not legally viable.

There's a number of reasons for that, the most blatant being that you could always mail yourself an empty envelope and seal something in it later.

This doesn't really have any relevence to the open call, since I don't believe WotC is trying to rip us off, but I thought it'd be worth mentioning.

 

[Ulrick]

I honestly believe that making at least $120,000+ on your campaign setting can be done through your own business, despite what goes on in the industry. You just have to know what you're doing on both the business and creative side of things.

Mouseferatu, Lizard, you two go ahead and think and speak all the "you can'ts" you wish. I don't share that context. Nor do I want to.

In the meantime, I'll be working on my projects. I'll be dreaming big and trying to bring those dreams to reality. I'll be learning business skills and gaining business experience.

Sure, I'll make mistakes along the way. But the knowledge gained from them will be priceless. I'll move forward.

And to everybody out there: If you have goals and dreams in your life you want to accomplish. Just do it. Even if it has nothing to do with D&D or RPGs, do it. You can.

It'll take work but I've found that you're life will take on new meaning, and you will find yourself happier than ever. Because you'll be doing something that means a lot to you, and you'll find that you'll be benefiting not only yourself but those around you in a good way.


Ulrick

 

[Eosin the Red]

You know, it took alot of courage for me to write up my setting proposal. Not because I knew I would make it big, I know that more than likely I will be casually dismissed --- they won't even remember the proposal.

I love my world, that will be a hard blow to take.

I think some folks around here may be dancing around the same issue. There is nothing wrong with being afraid that something you love will be rejected by others. It is a natural feeling.

By not submitting you have a cop out. You will also be one of those guys who hang around the front counter of the FLGS and says "well, I did not submit mine but I am pretty sure if I had......"


You still have time send it in, you can walk away later and know you did your best. If you walk away without stepping up to the plate......



[EDIT]: Wow, by the looks of it some have already started......

 

[Irysangel]

I struggled with the same thing!

I'm an aspiring novelist, and my 'setting' was actually the world that my fantasy novel (or trilogy, depending on how long it runs) is currently staged in. The 'main' characters were picked long ago, the races, backgrounds, classes, etc, all have been swimming in my head for several several months now (years maybe?).

I agonized over whether I should place an entry on a setting that I am totally gung-ho over, that would be easy for me to write about, and that would be a complete labor of love. I've always written with intentions of sharing my world, I just wasn't sure if this was the avenue I wanted to take it on.

I debated just churning out a Random Setting (TM) but I knew it wouldn't be nearly as good (or interesting). I talked with several people, and came to a decision--I entered my world anyways. Bottom line is--you can always refuse. I don't look at it as selling my 'world' inasmuch as I look at it as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. If my world gets picked, I'd love to slap my novel down on the desk of someone at WoTC and say "Here you go-- I'm 2 steps ahead of you. PLEASE publish me!"

Odds are I won't get picked. If I am, though, I'm $120K richer, published, ecstatic, and even if I can't write my novels about my world, I still haven't 'lost'. It's an idea that's mine, nothing more. I'm sure I'll have more of them.

But I know JUST how you feel!