My D&D Armor project

[Arkhandus]

Meh. I don't think I like the way this system would work out in D&D. AC would be rather escalated for warrior-types, and mages would be at even more of a disadvantage (say goodbye to touch and ranged touch spells! They'll never hit! Let alone any non-touch attacks a mage may have to attempt once in a while). I don't even know how you intend stuff like Mage Armor, Shield, Barkskin, Shield of Faith, and similar spells to work. Unless you jsut leave them as-is, otherwise I foresee problems.

Also, there's at least one wierd problem I see. A Fighter 5, for example, is apparently better off than a Fighter 6 for AC? And same for other levels like that, 10th versus 11th, 15th versus 16th. It seems that your system gives a 5th-level Fighter +5 to AC at all times (...even when flat-footed and attacked by something invisible with a touch attack with complete surprise....), but a 6th-level Fighter loses 5 points of AC (retaining only 1 point) when attacked more than once by any given opponent in a round. Bwuh?

Also, it doesn't say anything about the BCB loss being only temporary in some manner. So supposedly that 6th-level Fighter permanently loses 5 points of BCB. If you fix that glaring hole in your rule, at least make sure to be clear about whether or not the BCB reduction only applies against that same opponent's attacks in that same round, or whatever.

Also - Do bracers of armor still apply their normal AC bonus? Or is it replaced with the DR? As it is, your change or addition seems wierd considering that they're magic items meant to replace normal armor for characters who can't wear it (at a greater cost). If the DR replaces some or all of their normal AC bonus, how does their DR interact with the chart for normal armor DR, especially considering how much worse the bracers are in that regard?

And I fail to see the logic in why shields grant an AC bonus instead of DR when armor just gives DR (aside from any enhancement bonuses to AC from magic). I could see shields providing some of both benefits, but not just an AC bonus if armor itself doesn't provide AC (which is just wierd since it's called Armor Class).


Sidenote - As far as making charts works on the board, just surround the relevant chart with Code tags. I.E. put stuff here and (Code)Put chart here(/Code) and other stuff here. Just use square brackets instead of parentheses for the Code tags. You can use the spacebar or tab key inside the chart that way (though for the tab key to work, you'll have to use it in a word processor or something, like NotePad or WordPad or MSWord, since the tab key does other stuff in a web browser).

 

[SuedodeuS]

I made something similar once (albeit only with the armors in the PHB + 3 dragon scale armors). Mine was also for a low-magic campaign setting, and I had the armors granting smaller than normal AC bonuses, but also having some damage downgrading (downgraded damage essentially meant half subdual) abilities. The damage downgrading was based on the type of damage, just like with this.

I'm curious, however, as to how you came up with your DR numbers. I based mine off of initial AC bonus and material type (softer materials were great against bludgeoning, ok against slashing, and poor against piercing, while harder materials were the other way around).

 

[ONINOTAKI18]

I made something similar once (albeit only with the armors in the PHB + 3 dragon scale armors). Mine was also for a low-magic campaign setting, and I had the armors granting smaller than normal AC bonuses, but also having some damage downgrading (downgraded damage essentially meant half subdual) abilities. The damage downgrading was based on the type of damage, just like with this.

I'm curious, however, as to how you came up with your DR numbers. I based mine off of initial AC bonus and material type (softer materials were great against bludgeoning, ok against slashing, and poor against piercing, while harder materials were the other way around).

Well I got my numbers from a bit of looking at the types of DR already found in D&D. The barbarian gets up to 4/- over the course of his career I believe, which dosent do squat at level 20. It might buy you half a round, but what good is half a round you need your DR to buy you at least a full round. So I figured that the Barbarians DR by itself was insufficient, but I wanted armor values that if I decided the barbarians DR would add to his armor's DR it wouldnt be too powerful. Then I looked at the monk who I believe get a DR of 10/magic which is much more helpful at level 20 as long as nothing bypasses it. Then I looked at the DR gained from magic armour. The two types you see there is invunerable which I believe gives 5/- and the different block enchantments that provide your armor with 5/bludgenoning/slashing/ or piercing. Then when you look at the majority of DR on monsters it is in the 5/10/15 range. So it seemed like DR 5 was supposed to be on the low end, DR 10 was medium, and DR 15+ was the really powerful stuff. So I figured I would want my armor to provide bonuses between 5 and 10. The pattern you see in the table above is what I came up with that felt comfortable to me and made it so that the few playtests I did seemed to flow well. At this point I have pretty much decided that the barbarian can add his DR to his armor, and that the DR from invulnerable should just add 5 to all 3 categories, and the DR from each of the block enchantments should add 5 to their respective categories.

I think one of the biggest flaws with most armor as DR systems is they try give armor both an ac bonus and a dr value and end up giving too little to each. If armor is gonna be a DR provider then it needs to just be a DR provider and something else needs to provide the AC bonus that is needed.

 

[ONINOTAKI18]

Meh. I don't think I like the way this system would work out in D&D. AC would be rather escalated for warrior-types, and mages would be at even more of a disadvantage (say goodbye to touch and ranged touch spells! They'll never hit! Let alone any non-touch attacks a mage may have to attempt once in a while). I don't even know how you intend stuff like Mage Armor, Shield, Barkskin, Shield of Faith, and similar spells to work. Unless you jsut leave them as-is, otherwise I foresee problems.

Touch and ranged touch spells are a problem in both systems, they either almost always auto hit in core 3E/3.5E or they miss alot in against Strong BCB types in this system, all in all I think it just helps to show how messed AC is in 3E/3.5E. Also I thought it would be best to keep all spells/feats/magic items/etc that increase AC as is, and not try to adapt everything.

Also, there's at least one wierd problem I see. A Fighter 5, for example, is apparently better off than a Fighter 6 for AC? And same for other levels like that, 10th versus 11th, 15th versus 16th. It seems that your system gives a 5th-level Fighter +5 to AC at all times (...even when flat-footed and attacked by something invisible with a touch attack with complete surprise....), but a 6th-level Fighter loses 5 points of AC (retaining only 1 point) when attacked more than once by any given opponent in a round. Bwuh?

I didnt intend for flat footed, invisiblility, surprise, and other conditions that modify AC to no longer count, as was just trying to establish that the Base Combat Bonus to AC was just as stable as the base 10 AC that we add all other armor class bonuses to. That was bad wording on my part, and just goes to show again how annoying it is to have all of these negative modifiers to ac that you have to remember instead of the attacker just gaining a bonus to hit for those situations.

Anyway your AC should break down like this:
Slashing AC/DR
Piercing AC/DR
Bludgenoning AC/DR
Flat Footed AC
Touch AC
Other DR

Also, it doesn't say anything about the BCB loss being only temporary in some manner. So supposedly that 6th-level Fighter permanently loses 5 points of BCB. If you fix that glaring hole in your rule, at least make sure to be clear about whether or not the BCB reduction only applies against that same opponent's attacks in that same round, or whatever.

Yes that is a temporary decrease and only happens from multiple attacks from the same opponent in the same round. It is supposed to represent it getting easier for things like octopi and whirling dervishes wearing down your defense even if they miss a bunch on the at 1st. However that does create weird problems like you mentioned earlier about the 5th level fighter having a better ac against secondary attacks than a higher leverl fighter. I was kind of hoping that people who looked at the system might have some insight into a way around that.

Also - Do bracers of armor still apply their normal AC bonus? Or is it replaced with the DR? As it is, your change or addition seems wierd considering that they're magic items meant to replace normal armor for characters who can't wear it (at a greater cost). If the DR replaces some or all of their normal AC bonus, how does their DR interact with the chart for normal armor DR, especially considering how much worse the bracers are in that regard?

Bracers of armor use the following stats instead of giving an AC bonus:
2/magic-Cheapest
2/magic & cold iron
4/magic
4/magic & cold iron
6/magic
6/magic & cold iron - Most expensive

I havent worked out a cost but the top one should be the cheapest, and the bottom should be the most expensive. Basically bracers of armor just give you the DR listed, and have nothing else to do with armor. In some ways their DR is better than that of regular armor and in some ways it is worse.

And I fail to see the logic in why shields grant an AC bonus instead of DR when armor just gives DR (aside from any enhancement bonuses to AC from magic). I could see shields providing some of both benefits, but not just an AC bonus if armor itself doesn't provide AC (which is just wierd since it's called Armor Class).

Shields give you a flat out AC bonus because they either stop you from getting hit or they do not, and the weirdness in the name is simply because I kept the original term for Armor class for simplicities(SP?) sake. Also I was concerned with DR getting too high, I wanted to keep it at less then 10 for just regular armor


Sidenote - As far as making charts works on the board, just surround the relevant chart with Code tags. I.E. put stuff here and (Code)Put chart here(/Code) and other stuff here. Just use square brackets instead of parentheses for the Code tags. You can use the spacebar or tab key inside the chart that way (though for the tab key to work, you'll have to use it in a word processor or something, like NotePad or WordPad or MSWord, since the tab key does other stuff in a web browser).

Thanks for the tip, and the critque