My first 4th edition campaign
- Thread starter Sharkon
- Start date
Danceofmasks
First Post
Well, the very first thing I thought when I saw the lineup was:
Fighter, mage, thief ... cleric!
Classic.
Seriously though, a leader would be nice to have.
Hmm ... which rules are you using?
As in ... e.g. just player's handbook, or player's + adventurer's vault, or everything that's in the compendium (including all the dragon magazine stuff).
Fighter, mage, thief ... cleric!
Classic.
Seriously though, a leader would be nice to have.
Hmm ... which rules are you using?
As in ... e.g. just player's handbook, or player's + adventurer's vault, or everything that's in the compendium (including all the dragon magazine stuff).
Danceofmasks
First Post
Well, there are limited means to trigger healing surges.
Sure, if you make it through combat, a short rest will heal you up ...
During combat, however, most characters (at low levels) only have their second wind, and using that is usually a standard action (which could be better used taking down foes).
Also, consider that rogues and wizards have low hit points and low surges per day.
A wizard with 24 hp will have a surge value of 6 ... if a cleric uses healing word, they'll heal an additional D6+cleric's wis modifier (due to healer's lore), effectively doubling what each surge is worth.
And healing word is a minor action, so the cleric can attack on the same turn.
Would just like to point out that without healing bonuses, if a rogue or wizard falls unconscious 2 fights in a row, they'd be out of surges.
Having said all that, however ... I'm from the school of "healing is just delaying losing" where overwhelming offense can substitute for healing ('cos dead foes can't hurt you).
At the end of the day, it comes down to play style (and how deadly the group is).
Sample laser ('cos it shoots beams of light) cleric.
Human cleric:
Str 8, Con 11, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 16
Improves Wisdom and Charisma every stat bump.
Feats: Implement Expertise - Holy Symbol (PH2), Distant Advantage (PH2)
Powers: Lance of Faith, Sacred Flame, Divine Glow, Beacon of Hope
If the fighter and rogue are trying to flank all the time, you'll get combat advantage too.
With a high hitroll on Sacred Flame, you should be able to keep everyone in good health (temp hp and/or saving throws).
Divine Glow is versatile, it's both multi-target damage and a hitroll bonus for allies in the blast.
Consider picking up Astral Fire soon (as well as a magic holy symbol) to increase damage output.
Warrior of the Wild is also a good feat to take (two rounds of bonus damage is nice, but training in perception pure awesome).
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Without a leader, you generally get less out of your healing surges.
The question might be - do you like supporting the party and giving others the opportunity to shine, or do you want to be in the thick of things and be the one that gives the hurt. If you do like the former, a Leader type character - Cleric or Warlord - is great. If you prefer the latter, you might have more fun with something else. (The simplest being a Striker like a Avenger, Barbarian, Ranger or Rogue. But if you like "bossing" around the enemies, Controllers like Wizards and Defenders like the Fighter can be attractive, too).
The probably most adaptable party will typically cover all 4 roles. A focus on one role tends to mean that the party can have some advantages in certain situations and drawbacks in others.
Aside from combat, you might also wonder how the party fits together, if there is a backstory for the party, for example. A band of mercenaries might favor different classes than a band of young villagers leaving their home for the first time.
Wepwawet
Explorer
Yeah, you're kinda wrong (or the people that told you that are wrong).
Everyone has healing surges, but very few ways to use them: second wind (1/enc) and the occasional healing potion.
The leaders are important because they allow you to use more.
I had a game session where my barbarian kept on dying, because we where a Rogue, a Beast Ranger and me (all offense, no defense)
Obviously it depends on party composition.
Other leaders that where not suggested yet:
- Bard: arcane "musician" and loremaster, heals and is very good a controlling enemies
- Shaman: invokes your nature spirit, putting him in the thick of battle while you are safely away, controlling it. It has two builds, one leans on defender and the other on striker
Last edited:
Jack99
Adventurer
The correct name of the school is "DPS is King" and it is often in conflict with a contradicting school named "HP's are King".
@OP
Just to echo what the others said. Whoever told you that leaders weren't useful obviously do not understand 4e. They are *very* useful.
To complement the party, a cleric, a warlord (any really) a shaman or a bard would be great. Cleric offers the most healing, but the others offer many other bonuses to the rest of the party.
RigaMortus2
First Post
But in 4E, Leader healing is minor action, so you can do both.
Danceofmasks
First Post
Eh, you are assuming you have a leader.
If you can't win without healing, sooner or later you're going to take a TPK, 'cos at any time you need healing you're potentially losing the fight.
So you can pack healing, or you can pack bigger guns.
Although, half of my characters are leaders. I know where it's at.
I make sure my presence in the party contributes to total offense more than a striker (via buffs, offensive gear, high DPR build, etc).
And in so doing, healing becomes plan C.
The very rare situations when I have to actually use a healing power is when the dice were against us ... multiple crits, recharged powers, etc.
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