D&D 5E Subclasses or Feat Trees? Pros and Cons.

[SkidAce]

I've experimented with both as traditions of Magic.

Subclasses seem...easier ...but it's a commitment when starting your character.

I tried having feats as traditions, I. e. Blood Magic, Enchanter, High Magic, Eldar Magic etc. The feats were a chain, 1st feat cast 1st and 2nd level spells marked as Blood Magic, 2nd feat 3rd and 4th level and so on. Maybe a special ability per feat also.

This would let you dabble in a tradition, commit as much or little as you like.

But then I think you could do that by taking x levels of the class/subclass. But that prevents a Fire Wizard from picking up a new tradition (can't wizard/wizard multiclass)

Either way, my thought was the bulk of subclass or feat tree would be provided by unique spells. Abjurerers would get Spell Absorbtion" as feat four or 14th level of the subclass.

Either way has pluses and minuses, I would like the great minds here to PEACH the two concepts if you would, because I need to commit and finish my campaign tweaks.

Thanks in advance, will be out of town tomo but will read replies.

 

[Yaarel]

A "subclass" is like a class-specific feat. Tho it is even better if it makes sense for several classes to take the subclass. In this sense, the subclass is like a prestige class that various classes can take.

A subclass level is worth about the same as a feat level.

A subclass is a commitment to a series of feats in a specific order. A main benefit of a subclass is, to "borrow" from one level in order to grant an especially powerful option at an other level.

This is also possible with feats. If a feat requires an other feat, the first feat can be underpowered in order to balance the next feat that is a bit overpowered.

Also, an even better approach for balance is for feats to have level requirements. Currently, the main feats require at least level 4. But there can be other feats that require level 8, 12, or 16. The feats that are a bit much, or that affect the setting in a dramatic way can have a higher level prereq, so whatever benefit the feat grants fits in with the expectations for the "tier" of the game.

Overall, I prefer subclasses be freeform choice of feats − with ready-made examples for what feats to choose for a specific character concept.

 

[SkidAce]

I think you might have the right idea.

Going to work on it a bit as feats, cause I want a wizard, cleric, etc to be able to dabble in a tradition as much or as little as possible. This way a wizard could pick up Blood Magic, or Astromancy, and get the basics*. Or grab all the level gated Feats which would add say various Astromancy abilities.

Then the Esoteric Order of the Magi could be where you learn said feats, you could be a wizard that takes all the feats, a theurgist that takes several, or even a cleric that just takes one.


*Basics: In my OP I had feats as groups of spell levels, that eats up too many feats. I am going to try this:

1st Feat: Access to casting spells of the tradition.
2nd Feat: Core special Ability of tradition.
3rd Feat: Special Ability of tradition.
4th Feat: Special Ability of tradition.
5th Feat: Tradition Capstone Ability


In fact, I think...barring any further discussion of pros and cons...I will use this framework for my fighter schools also.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Feat trees would let you mix and match and I'm all for getting as much customization out of the game as possible.

 

[Tonguez]

It really comes down to how modular you want things - Subclasses means you get a predetermined package of abilities and narrative, whereas feat trees let you 'pick and choose' between options and largely make your own narrative to justify it.

Subclass is easier, but Feat Trees are more fun

 

[SkidAce]

It really comes down to how modular you want things - Subclasses means you get a predetermined package of abilities and narrative, whereas feat trees let you 'pick and choose' between options and largely make your own narrative to justify it.

Subclass is easier, but Feat Trees are more fun

Yeah, I want classes to be a starting point, and traditions (feats for now) something they expand into as much as they want.

Creating sublcasses locks them into the main class in order to get my custom subclass, I am feeling that I want class/subclass to remain the big blocks for now.

Basically more combos.

 

[LordEntrails]

I like feat trees for their variety and ability to chose them as you go (assuming the trees are not so rigorous that you must continue down a predefined path once started!). And good feat trees need lots and lots of options and paths and cross-overs.

I don't like feat trees because they can almost never be well balanced. And again one or three paths dominate. And I don't like that because I don't like a large discrepancy between optimizers and flavor driven choices.

 

[SkidAce]

I like feat trees for their variety and ability to chose them as you go (assuming the trees are not so rigorous that you must continue down a predefined path once started!). And good feat trees need lots and lots of options and paths and cross-overs.

I don't like feat trees because they can almost never be well balanced. And again one or three paths dominate. And I don't like that because I don't like a large discrepancy between optimizers and flavor driven choices.

Yeah, an actual feat tree is hard to balance and develop.

My goal is more of a single Feat Path, with a totally separate path for each tradition, which you can follow as much as you like.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yeah, an actual feat tree is hard to balance and develop.

My goal is more of a single Feat Path, with a totally separate path for each tradition, which you can follow as much as you like.

That's how I'm dealing with it in the system I'm devving right now: a minor tree of 3-5 direct feats and 2-4 branches per 'subclass' with no limit to how many you can actually be on but a little DM guidance to guide players to stay to 1-3 paths.

Now the important part I've found in playtesting is to make sure these paths add to options rather than provide static bonuses.

 

[SkidAce]

Now the important part I've found in playtesting is to make sure these paths add to options rather than provide static bobonuses.

That makes sense. Bonuses have no flavor, while options add to the story and lore of the tradition.