My first character, could use some input.

[Xin]

Heya,

Just recently got picked up by a friendly group of players who invited me for some DnD action. Problem is it's been years since I've played (for many different reasons) and I'm not really all that familiar with 3E yet. I've followed the development since release and I have all 3 core books, but since I haven't been playtesting a lot (not at all actually) I haven't gotten to know the classes yet.

The group I will be playing in seem fairly experienced and very centered on combat (unfortunately) and dungeons filled with deadly traps =).

Now, for some reason I've always enjoyed small races, especially halflings. So, Im going with that. I have trouble deciding though what to be. A rogue seemed to be an obvious choice since the group consists of 2 fighters, 1 cleric and 1 wizard. They could really use a "trap disarmist".

But are rogues any fun to play? I know they'll have a lot of things to do outside combat but what do they do when things get dirty? Though being a puritan roleplayer combat still plays a very vital part for me. I want things to get very tactical and I would hate to play a character that only does his "one thing" if you get my meaning. A rogue that tumbles in, spring attacks, and tumbles out again - rinse and repeat is not really my idea of fun... not even if I do gazillion amounts of damage and the DM rewards me with a T-shirt that says "Woah!".

Anyway (getting long), the bottom line is: What class should I pick for my halfling if I'm out there looking for options? Monk, Sorcerer, Fighter? Multiclass perhaps? Any combos/suggestions/ideas are very welcome. I'm not looking for a "best" class a la munchkin, but merely a class (combo) I'd enjoy playing in the long run.

Thanks for listening.

Xin

 

[Frosty]

The halfling rogue is a classic and since your party needs one the choice is easy. There is a lot of tactic involved in playing a rogue (and lots of neat class abilities). When you grow tired of sneak attacking (like that's gonna happen) you can throw alchemist fire and tanglefoot bags, which you can buy in any olde shoppe. Be sure to pick up Use Magic Devise as that skill allows you to use wands. There are lots of tactical choices to be made with a wand of lightning for example. As a rogue you often get to "choose" magical items first which helps you pick out interesting and versatile stuff. That's about it... Yes, max out escape artist. I can't stress this enough. As a halfling (small) you can't allow yourself to be grappled because that will kill you. (Adventure-writers loves to add especially heinous ways for the DM to kill the small ones).

 

[Xin]

Thanks for the info!

As a rogue, should I stay away from multiclass and go straight rogue? Also, as a halfling (low speed, low str), should I concentrate on flinging daggers or go straight up melee using spring attack? Any feat combos are greatly appreciated.

Xin

 

[Frosty]

Thanks for the info!

As a rogue, should I stay away from multiclass and go straight rogue? Also, as a halfling (low speed, low str), should I concentrate on flinging daggers or go straight up melee using spring attack? Any feat combos are greatly appreciated.

Xin

Rogue-levels increases your sneak attack. Sorcerer-levels allows you to do more stuff automatically (Look up True Strike, for example, pretty neat even though it takes awhile). Ranger-levels gives you more attacks. Which way you go is entirely up to you. They are all good but my guess is that it's more confined, fun and interesting to play a straight rogue. The higher level abilities you get as a rogue above tenth level are all very good and kewl. I'll give tips on rogue:

You don't have to decide between range or melee. You should be able to do both depending on the situation. Since sneak attacks works best on flesh and I suggest you get a sling to use on undead. (If you can get halfling skip-rocks. You'll find them in the Dragon Mag issue Warriors Kick Ass). Or try to sling flasks of holy water.

Don't bother with Spring Attack. Sure, it's pretty cool but the feats are better spent on Point Blank, Rapid and Precise shot. You can do without Dodge and Mobility. Try to get Finesse (shortsword) as soon as you can. Moreover, never just attack. Always try to hit them with whatever it is you have in your bag of holding, be it sovereign glue, a decanter of endless water set to hose, animated rope, oil of grease or what have you.

 

[Xin]

Thanks again!

I'll do as you've suggested and see what becomes of my rogue. Hopefully I'll survive long enough to amass some play testing experience =).

 

[Garmorn]

If you want spring attack take a look at a monk, barbarian or a phyicwarrior.

Monks and barbarian will give you a speed increase but at cost. The monk's unarmed combat won't be that great but the AC bonus will be nice. But check out first if your DM allows monks to freely multiclass. The barbarian on the other hand give better hit dice, improved hp's and rage. Both cost lots of skill points and slows your sneak attack damage.

The phyicwarrior can give you more speed, increased unarmed combat damage, and or other special abilities with out costing you hp's like a wizard/socerer will. On the other hand it will cost you even more skill points.

A nother good alternitive is a psion. Lots of nice supporting powers whith a lower cost in skill points then the rest. I have just worked up one for a spy type and he gets plenty of skills from both.

 

[Xin]

Monk has been on my mind all the time, but I'm not sure if the DM will allow him to freely multiclass. Also, the small size unarmed damage seem to be quite a disadvantage.

Unfortunately the DM is not familiar with the psionic's handbook, which is a shame, since psychic warriors seem to have a lot of things up their sleeves. If I knew he would allow me to multiclass freely as a monk I would go psychic warrior/monk and see how that would turn out.

The DM is going 30pts point buy, so far my character's abilities have turned out to be (for a rogue):

str 10 (-2)
dex 18 (+2)
con 10
int 16
wis 10
cha 10

Though I have the intelligence, I've never been too fond of wizards, as they have to memorize their spells in advance, and multiclassing in to a sorcerer would seem a bad idea since I'd have to dump points into charisma. It would cost me some intelligence, thus some extra skillpoints. Not sure if it's worth it.

What I was thinking of would be to perhaps add a couple of fighter levels to get some more feats, and possibly some more things to do in combat. I was about to play 3E almost two years ago, and at that time I was "rolling blindly" going an ambidexterious two weapon fighting rogue. Still pondering on that one.

Either its straight Rogue as Frosty has suggested, a mix between Fighter/Rogue, a straight Monk or a straight Sorcerer.

Sigh, back to square one I guess.

 

[Wicht]

If you haven't played a 3e rogue yet, you are in for a pleasant surprise. They are very flexible and with the skills you choose you can pick any number of character types: Sniper, Burglar, spy, trap-detector. I would suggest though you familiarize yourself with the many skills available to you (and the feats) and work out a character combo that works for you.

For instance with the sniper concept in mind, I just made a human rogue/fighter, which even at 0 level manages to have three feats and 11 skills. I put his skills into hiding, climbing, listening, spotting, and the like so that he can easily pick a spot, hide and then pick off those that come near. His feats are on point blank shot, improved initiative and precise shot. As soon as he hits 1st level (i.e 2nd level but 1st level fighter and 1st level rogue) he will also gain the sneak attack ability. After that, one more level of fighter will bring in 2 more feats and then the rogue levels can be bumped up for better skills and better sneak attacks.

Any number of things are possible though with the rogue and the sneak attack makes them very viable for combat. If I was advising you, I would put your highest stat in dexterity of course, but put your second highest in intelligence as those extra skills are very handy.

edit - I was typing while you posted, I see you already bumped your intelligence, nicely done.

 

[Xin]

Very interesting Wicht, that's what I was looking for.

Maybe I'll do something similar, I'll get to try out the rogue and with some levels in fighter I'll have some extra feats to play around with.

Christ, I feel like such a newbie, been ages since I sat down to play DnD (and that was 2e). Let me throw some quick questions at you all.

For a halfling, is the short sword and sling the "standard" weapons? What about using daggers for both melee and ranged? Though then I would have to pick up quickdraw to be able to carry out multiple attacks, no?

What is a rogue's task in a fight? Hopefully winning the initiative for some quick easy damage followed up by flanking for further use of the sneak attack? Can you flank with ranged attacks? Ie. could I get in sneak attacks with ranged attacks, or do I need to get up close?

Hmmm.. cant think of anything else for the time being. Well, I'm sure I'll keep them coming.

Thanks for all the input.

edit - quickdraw would be for throwing multiple daggers.

 

[evileeyore]

My first suggestion: Play straight Rogue for a bit but keep your eye out for Song and Silence. You might find a decent prestige class in there you'ld enjoy.

Second suggestion: Reverse your Int and Dex. I can not stress the importance of the extra skill points. By 8th level your Dex will have hit that 18 agian and you'll have gained a level's worth of skill points along the way (8 specifically). Although if you are really worried about AC, then this might not be a tactic for you...

What I have discovered about skills in 3e is most people look at how many skill points they get per level. Then they chose that many skills, and keep them maxed out all the way up. Of course there are the exceptions to this rule, and sometimes people will take 1-2 extra skills and have a few at 1/2 max or so, but they will still have a core group at max.

Rogue skills of importance (and why):

Search- no one else can find magic traps. remember that abjurations that overlap are easier to find (and almost every magical trap is an abjuration).

Disable Device- goes hand in hand with Search

Spot- can't let your party be ambushed right?

Tumble- you will have a lower AC. tumble will help you get into and out of tight spots. It can also save your bacon with improving the fight defensively option...

Climb- because someone has to

Escape Artist- Grappling aside, as a Halfling there is nowhere you couldn't squeeze into...

Secondary skills of importance: these flesh out your role...

Pickpocket- Even LG rogues sometimes need to lift the guards keys

Bluff, Sense Motive, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Innuendo- Some one needs to be the party spokes man...

Listen, Read Lips, Gather Information, Sense Motive, Innuendo, Decipcer Script- Sometimes you really need that extra bit of info

UMD, Decipher Script- want to know what that strange magic items does? Also useful to carry a wand of cure- the DC is only 20 to activate... DS gives a good syn bonus with UMD on scrolls. Also a couple of buff wands (Cat's Grace, Bull's Strentgh, Endurance) and those are spells the Wizard/Cleric doesn't have to memorize...




Useful skills to have at atleast 1 rank in (because they can't be used untrained:

UMD- wand DC 20... on a good roll after combat you can really help the party out

Innuendo- if you go with Bluff and Sense Motive the synergy bonuses could get you to an adequate skill level (+5) without too many ranks...

Decipher Script- occasionally nice to read the writting on the wall...