My first time DMing: Will these encounters be too difficult?

[cmbarona]

As the title says, it's my first time DMing 4e. I'm a frequent player, and I GM'd Shadowrun for a while, so I'm okay with plot and such. I just want to check that the encounters I designed for our first game won't be too difficult. There are 4 players: 1 Ranger, 1 Rogue, 1 Paladin, and 1 Cleric. Everyone will start at level 1, so my concern is whether these fights will be too difficult to tackle in a single day. I know that tackling higher-level challenges becomes easier as the party gains levels, so I'm curious about that. Anyway, here are the encounters:

Encounter 1: Assassins attacking a caravan
2 Halfling Stouts (Level 2 minions)
2 Human Rabble (Level 2 minions)
1 Elf Archer (Level 2 Artillery)
1 Elf Scout (Level 2 Skirmisher)
1 Human Guard (Level 3 soldier)

Encounter 2: Wolves follow the trail of blood
3 grey wolves (Level 2 skirmisher)
1 dire wolf (Skirmisher, bumped down from Level 5 to Level 3)

Encounter 3: Home-brewed Elementals (details on their stats later)
1 swarm of tiny fire elementals (Level 3 Skirmisher)
1 Lightning Elemental (Level 3 Artillery)
1 Frost Elemental (Level 3 Elite Brute)

Remember: 4 players, Level 1, all in a single day. Think they'll be fine?

 

[timbannock]

Do you have access to the DMG? There's a page about Encounter Building that includes the "XP Budget" of an encounter so that it is balanced for the PCs.

A not-too-thorough look at your encounters makes me believe they will be on the Very Difficult end of the spectrum, but doable.

The next question then, is this: do your players know to run away if they are outgunned? And will you let them?

If they blow all their dailies on the first or second encounter, your third encounter will be a COMPLETE MEATGRINDER. If they can run away (and are likely to do so) then it's fine; not every encounter should be perfectly "balanced." But if you're a jerk, and they don't back down, then expect a lot of pissed of players with dead characters.

***
As a first-time DM, you may want to consider taking it easy on the players to start. Get used to them winning, and get used to running encounters. It's okay if the first few aren't too challenging because it gives both sides of the table an idea of how you run things. Who knows, maybe you're a natural tactician and even weaker encounters prove challenging for the players?

But putting them through the wringer straight out of the gate is usually frustrating if you don't know the rules well: you won't know when or how to pull punches if you need to, and if the first session you run ends in a TPK, the players may not trust you as a DM and may not want to keep playing in your game.

 

[timbannock]

Strike that: a more thorough look at your encounters screams MEATGRINDER.

Encounters are balanced for a party of FIVE Player Characters, usually by having 3-6 monsters of roughly equal level. A difficult encounter might include a couple monsters above the PCs' level, but less monsters overall (or replacing several with minions).

Your first encounter has SEVEN monsters, all higher level than the PCs. The PCs will be outnumbered AND outgunned.

The second encounter will be tough, but is not a problem.

The third encounter will be very tough, especially if Daily powers are gone (which would be likely because of the difficulty of the other two encounters...in fact, you'll probably see the group barely alive if they even make it through that first encounter).

I would tone down the first encounter, or, if I read this right, I would add several NPCs to help them out. After all, maybe the PCs aren't the only guards on the caravan. That will dovetail some of the issues nicely.

 

[cmbarona]

Hmm... I see your points. I may scale down the last encounter and add a skill challenge at some point. In case it makes any difference for tactical weight, I've been playing since about 4e came out and the Ranger has been the DM for those games. The Paladin was part of our original party, but he's not the most tactical player (I'm already forseeing him needing to add up his attack bonus every time). The Cleric joined a little later, and he's pretty good. The Rogue is completely new.

 

[DanmarLOK]

If you're using 'official' monsters although there are certainly a couple of standout exceptions that are tougher than they should be, then going with the 'xp budget' for an encounter I haven't had any problems.

So let's see:

Ecounter 1: 4 l2 minions at 31 per, 2 l2's standards at 125, and 1 l3 standard at 150 for a total of 524 xp.

A 'normal' encounter budget for 4 characters at level 1 would be 400 -500 xp so this is within the ballpark of a normal, not easy, not hard encounter. Perhaps remove one minion to be strictly in the range.

Encounter two has almost identical budget with 525 exp spent. Again it's right at the cusp of normal to hard. Should be fine, just be ready to turn a hit or two into a miss perhaps if the dice are going your way or against the players.

Encounter 3 is definitely on the lower side of Hard at 600 xp which is fine for a end day fight.

I'd say you should be fine pending the player's ability to play their characters in a synergistic manner. If they play badly (not roll badly although they can be a factor) then these might end up tough encounters but I wouldn't expect a TPK out it.

 

[timbannock]

While DanmarLOK has a great by-the-numbers analysis, it's worth stressing the fact that the PCs are outnumbered in that first encounter. Although the XP budget is fine, having seven on four is a lot more harrowing than it might otherwise appear.

If the players don't know to take out those Minions right away, then you're talking seven attacks on the PCs each round vs. four against the baddies. Those three extra attacks will add up fast unless the Players really work on bringing a badguy or two down each round. That's not easy if the players are not tactically minded.

Hell, my players have been playing D&D for years and years (some as many as 20 years!) and they still don't always concentrate their attacks when they should.

 

[DanmarLOK]

As an afterthought you are missing a controller aka aoe'r so the fight with the minions could be difficult unless one of the party is a dragonborn (breath weapon = minion killer). This could be easily fixed by having a bit of a wave attack.

I've actually got two documented similar encounters, budget wise, with four characters, one encounter which didn't have a controller.

8 l1 minions and 2 l3 standards versus Ranger, Rogue, Fighter, Cleric, Key Our Cars » Blog Archive » Skeletal Archer Playtest

a warrior, rogue, wizard, ranger versus 6 l1 minions, 2 l2 standards, 2 l1 standards Key Our Cars » Blog Archive » Encounter 4 Key Our Cars » Blog Archive » Round by Round

Tough fights yes but it was also with a still new to 4th edition experience level so things were not what you'd call played optimally.

 

[DanmarLOK]

That's definitely true. Although some GM's feel differently I always give some visual descriptors when I describe the combatants that give fairly strong indicators that some of the troops might be of lesser quality.

Usually a smart thing to do is first off decrease the number of opponents you're facing as quickly as possible barring extreme encounter make up.

If you're players take too long to get that or if you think they're going to then reduce the number of total combatants.

I've actually found the more entrenched in older DnD variants the players are the worse they play 4e. They're used to each PC taking on a separate mob because the mobs died so fast that you'd waste attacks or rounds getting into position.

Ironically, players who have a lot of Battletech or Starfleet battle board game experience or who've primarily played MMOG's have better focus fire practices from the start.

If the players don't know to take out those Minions right away, then you're talking seven attacks on the PCs each round vs. four against the baddies. Those three extra attacks will add up fast unless the Players really work on bringing a badguy or two down each round. That's not easy if the players are not tactically minded.

Hell, my players have been playing D&D for years and years (some as many as 20 years!) and they still don't always concentrate their attacks when they should.

 

[keterys]

Fwiw, all the encounters fall into the n+1 to n+2 range, so if the players were experienced I'd say that they're totally fine. The 7 in the first encounter is hardly scary given that 4 of those 7 are minions.

In fact, comparing to the encounters I faced (as a player) for my first games of 4E these are definitely doable.

That said, these are first time players - you'll know them better than we will in terms of tactical acumen and desire for danger.

The final encounter is probably the most dangerous, since that might overload their ability to take damage (like if all the monsters attack and drop the paladin in one round). Not familiar with the monsters to know for sure.

 

[the Jester]

I've actually found the more entrenched in older DnD variants the players are the worse they play 4e. They're used to each PC taking on a separate mob because the mobs died so fast that you'd waste attacks or rounds getting into position.

Ironically, players who have a lot of Battletech or Starfleet battle board game experience or who've primarily played MMOG's have better focus fire practices from the start.

My players learned a heavy lesson in focusing fire in our pickup game a while back. They got tpked by a pair of dragon wyrmlings, and at the end of the fight, the wyrmlings had 7 hit points each left.