My God, It's Full of Clones

[James McMurray]

If it breaks the game then dont use it. Dont just stick it in and then include a bunch of restrictions solely designed so that you can blow raspberries at your players.

What if you're adding restrictions so that you can include an interesting challenge for the players without destroying your campaign? Is it ok then?

 

[jensun]

What if you're adding restrictions so that you can include an interesting challenge for the players without destroying your campaign? Is it ok then?

Personally I would find a different challenge or do it in a different way.

Otherwise is sort of smacks of taunting your players with the vaunted "npc only" effects.

 

[James McMurray]

So it's ok if someone clones them and sets those clones free to try to kill the originals, but not ok if a mirror does it?

 

[jensun]

So it's ok if someone clones them and sets those clones free to try to kill the originals, but not ok if a mirror does it?

I probably wouldnt have a huge issue with that (although I am not certain the Clone spell actually allows it but I dnt have my books handy).

The issue with the Mirror is duplication of magical items, not people. Its a broken effect and if its under the control of a bad guy there is no reason at all why he shouldnt be using it to generate vast quantities of gear.

 

[ThatGuyThere]

There was an intelligent Mirror of Opposition in a "critical threat" article in an issue of Dungeon.

The sheer genius of the idea has put me off ever submitting anything myself

I definitely remember that one. Glimmerpane. My favorite Critical Threat ever.

I've had him in three different campaigns, and the PCs never found out - because their plans never ran counter to Glimmerpane's for long enough for the mirror to try to destroy them.

Very, very awesome villian.

 

[James McMurray]

I probably wouldnt have a huge issue with that (although I am not certain the Clone spell actually allows it but I dnt have my books handy).

There are ways around the items problems. The clones could actually be tricked out with better gear than the PCs, none of it usable by them.

The issue with the Mirror is duplication of magical items, not people. Its a broken effect and if its under the control of a bad guy there is no reason at all why he shouldnt be using it to generate vast quantities of gear.[/QUOTE]

Are you vehemently opposed to all house rules?

The reason I ask is that Ravager of Time is my favorite adventure ever, and one of the ones my players talk about the most too. It's entirely based around an NPC only effect that's like a mirror of opposition except the clones have fast healing and the process also makes the characters really old with all the penalties (including mental and physical quirks) and none of the benefits (like increased mental stats). Despite that incredibly huge plot device (actually because of it) it's an amazingly fun adventure.

It's one of the campaigns that made me realize that NPC-only isn't necessarily a bad thing if done right. The PCs couldn't use the process to clone others because they were good (and didn't ever learn it even if they weren't). Instead the players had fun and the characters got lots of XP, cool stories to tell, a recurring enemy, and some neat toys that didn't involve breaking the game wide open.

Adding a simple restriction to the Mirror of Opposition seems to me like an easy and effective way of keeping an item within the realm of fun for the players and good for the campaign. If you'd prefer to ban things or use them as is that's cool. Whatever ends up as fun is what's best for that particular group.

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

Mirror of opposition?

Where's a Vampire when ya need one - preferably epic in nature.

 

[glass]

When going through a published high-level adventure (+18th), we (the PCs) took everything. I mean it: everything! Even those silly plot devices, like a Mirror of Opposition. If it was "nailed down", that just meant it took longer to take it. By the time we were done with that module, the loot we had was incredible......and far exceeded the "usual per-level wealth" we were supposed to get.[/I]

I believe the term for that is 'greyhawking'.


glass.

 

[Stormrunner]

But, won't the duplicate that appears in the front of the mirror of opposition automatically reflect on the mirror? The second duplicate would have your own alingment and will try to kill the first duplicate. Up to other two duplicates should also appear (since the mirror thankfully has a daily limit) and duplicate D will try to kill duplicate C, who in turn is trying to kill B, who's trying to kill duplicate A, in turn trying to make you kick the bucket.

AIUI, the duplicate is the reflection - you look in the mirror, your reflection acquires an evil grin and starts climbing out of the mirror...

... which would imply that the duplicate does not, itself, produce a reflection, just like a vampire.

 

[darthkilmor]

Sounds like a job for an Inevitable.

Agreed, they seem like they should be the standard way to deal with players abusing things like that.