My group is full of smart-***es; or "The good guys aren't evil enough."

[BSF]

I Think RangerWickett might be on to something though. He should make it clear that the only thing Bureau wants from the PCs is the item. Maybe have some snide comment from the agent dealing them of using a carrot, but he will use a stick if he needs to.

The PCs have the item and the Bureau could take it away, but doing so would probably be messy. If the PCs work for them, it isn't as messy. The agent would prefer a small mess, because a big mess means more paperwork to fill out after the fact. Forms explaining why certain people had to be mindwiped, why certain cremations were necessary, why so much 'janitorial staff' had to be assigned to 'clean up' a problem. He could do the paperwork, but he was kind of hoping to stop by the bar on the way home tonight. The paperwork would mean another hour or two at the office. In essence, the agent wants the PCs to work with him because that time is worth a beer or two. Hence, the value of the PCs is broken down to a beer.

 

[RangerWickett]

lol Good stuff.

 

[Endur]

Most players are anti-authority figures. Its a cultural thing.

The PCs in my game don't like any of the NPCs who are in positions of authority. I wonder if perhaps we're all somehow unhappy about authority figures, and that they inherently think that anyone who has any sort of position is incompetent.

 

[Cheerful Coffin]

Most players are anti-authority figures. Its a cultural thing.

True, but even when I play evil characters I help the authorities bag my anarchist allies. It's stupidity really, there's no reason to attack an officer for no good reason just as a commonor. Both you, and the goverment, have to use thier common sense if you want to survive.

The differance between evil and good is the intent, evil is selfish and cruel, good is compassionate and generous. But regardless, both know better then to just walk up to a gaurd and cut open his gut with a shortsword. Atleast they should..

This is partialy the reason when I dm all things (sept monsters who don't need it..) have pc class rankings. Some are higher level then others, but ultimately it's obvious most of society knows a thing or two about psionics, melee, magick, and skill.. So go ahead and try to outmuscle the level 3 gaurds who told you to put your hands up, attempt to assault and batter the level 6 wizard who owns a magick shop, they can defend themselves and will promptly..

 

[kigmatzomat]

I had a similar issue running Mage. Young magelings are generally involved in lots of crap but almost never see the higher ups outside their labs/libraries so they really had the "teenagers saving the universe while there parents didn't know" syndrome. Additionally, the BBEGroup is described as "all-encompassing" so it seems incompetent when it doesn't catch the stuff they notice just walking down the street.

I resolved the latter with the help of a published adventure that had the BBEGroup trying to prevent "The Big One" in California. A few vampires who rarely kill when they feed are pretty much a non-issue versus the loss of several million people. It also allowed me to paint the BBEGroup in shades of gray, with people who honestly want to help and have rather significant personal power but are hamstrung by beauracracy or internal politics. ("I can get this scumbag demoted if I can get some dirt but he's monitoring me & my staff too closely for us to do anything directly....")

The former was eliminated after they'd reached a point of some power and got caught up in something really big. A group of cultists tried to summon something but opened a portal to the wrong dimension and started warping reality around a large chunk of a major city. The party's mentors' (and a few unknown mages) appeared and started lobbing around megaton-level magics to try and stabilize things while the PCs hurried to close the portal before it completely opened. When the PCs saw their mentors afterwards injured and riddled with mystical side-effects that would take weeks to fade the penny finally dropped on why the mentors were always staying in their heavily shielded, comfort-laden rooms.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Most players are anti-authority figures. Its a cultural thing.

It is because they don't aim to be top of the organization & able to direct it to their will. A classic case of not daring to aim for the top & thus settling for mediocrity, all the while pretending to be a rebel by choice.

 

[Nifft]

It is because they don't aim to be top of the organization & able to direct it to their will. A classic case of not daring to aim for the top & thus settling for mediocrity, all the while pretending to be a rebel by choice.

You're wrong! That's not me! I'm fighting against that!

-- N

 

[SweeneyTodd]

Watch Buffy.

Seriously.

The Watcher's Council in that show is a group of stuffy British men in tweed who are, bluntly, not very helpful. They have access to a huge amount of knowledge on the supernatural, but their practical, "on the ground" work is not very effective. (I mean, their modus operandi is basically to find teenage girls whose supernatural powers have recently activated, take them into their care, and indoctrinate them into doing what they say. They use young women as weapons. Hard to sympathise with that.)

But then there's Giles, who's Buffy's Watcher. He's eventually kicked out (and stays on with her in an unofficial capacity), because he puts her well being before the organization's orders. He loses access to resources that they desparately need as a result. He's between a rock and a hard place.

So here's how I'd work that dynamic in your game. Start showing someone within the organization who is a genuinely good and capable person. Have him be genuinely helpful to the PCs, providing knowledge and equipment.

Then screw the NPC over. The Bureau cracks down on him, demotes him, etc. because he's bending the rules. Basically, he's in trouble because he helped them. Maybe they'll respond by trying to help him out, reform the Bureau. Maybe they'll encourage him to leave, go freelance, make a difference on his own. Maybe they'll just walk away.

But whatever they do, they'll have thought about it. It shows that even if the organization is ineffective (and a bureaucratic mindset isn't very flexible, which you kind of need when dealing with the supernatural), people within that bureaucracy can do something meaningful.