"My hat of flight noes know limits"

[Aservan]

So this is a rant against the design of 4th edition. This is probably my personal problem. So if you hate flight and thinking in 3 dimensions is a pain in the but for you then you should probably not waste your time reading the rest of this.

First off I really like what I see of 4th for the most part. Powers are awesome, fun to play, and reasonably well balanced. Except for one glaring area (though I will probably find more as time passes).

Flight.

The designers clearly hate flight. The best wizard and warlock fly powers are dailies that last only until the end of the encounter or 5 minutes.

This sucks.

It really really really sucks.

Problems with flight:

• It is hard for most people to really think in three dimensions. As humans we only need the two + time for the most part.
• The third dimension is really hard to model on a battle map.
• It invalidates certain skills. Why balance on a ledge when you can just fly over it?

Benefits of flight:

• It is part of the genere of almost every fantasy setting ever made. Flying ships. Flying monsters. Basically flying ninja animae dudes.
• Flying is fun.
• They promised that Dragonborn could get a feat to fly. They lied.
• Ok that last one isn't really a benefit but is part of the dragons get to fly and dragons = fun. No fly mean no real dragon mean no fun!
• Flying is completely awesome sause

Why is flying so game breaking? The only reason I can think of is the "But but I paid lots and lots of feats to be super acrobat ninja of doom!"

My response is not very nice, but is how I feel.

To damn bad! Get over it.

Magic trumps skill in D&D and every other fantasy... anything! Magic versus physics? Magic wins. Magic versus chemistry? Magic again. Magic versus logic? You guess it. That would be... um... why it is magic?

The designers need to just let flight happen. Now I have to go in and tinker (which admittedly can be fun) and make some feats so that teiflings and dragonborn can fly. That means I will have to keep tinkering as new books come out. Which is a pain. I pay them to do this for me.

Why oh why could they not have just left well enough alone and let people fly at high level? They left the friggin stupid weapon size rules and wasted space on feats for gods maybe six people will ever play.

Ok my rant is over. If you want to discuss things or chime in with support or vitriol you know what to do.

 

[hong]

You misspelled awesome source. Hope this helps!

 

[malraux]

Why is flying so game breaking?

Because the force of gravity is a vector? Seriously, its because a guy who can fly and has a cross bow will beat any creature who cannot fly.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Forgive me for defending 4e here, but flight was a headache and a half whenever PCs could give it to themselves.

I have nothing against flying ships, flying monsters, flying NPCs, or all that (Screw ninjas). But PCs being able to just shrug and give themselves fly made things incredibly irritating at best.

 

[Lanefan]

First off, I like flight too.

That said, it does have some inherent problems, mostly to do with having to design adventures with flight in mind as a likely PC ability. We'll know how hard they tried to get rid of it when we see how many iconic flight devices are still in the game (we know Flying Carpet is in).

What annoys me more is that with the 5-minute max. duration, they have taken flight out as a long-range travel option...and I see long-range flight as a far preferable design option to teleport (or walking; too slow).

But, regardless how long the duration is, if you're still aloft when it runs out you should crash to the ground...none of this wussy 3.5e automatic featherfall business.

Lanefan

 

[FourthBear]

I'm not really sure how often we see the comic book superhero style flight offered by the old 3rd level Fly spell in fantasy stories. There are indeed a fair number of flying ships and flying mounts and flying monsters, but how often can the heroes fly around like Green Lantern? And, of the examples that do exist, how often is that flight used as intelligently and effectively as your average RPG player can manage?

 

[Leatherhead]

Because the force of gravity is a vector? Seriously, its because a guy who can fly and has a cross bow will beat any creature who cannot fly.

Unless the creature who can't fly also has a crossbow, in fact the creature on the ground can duck for cover and plink away at the guy in open air, giving a clear advantage for the guy on the ground behind cover

And for the rest of the time, well damn they managed to use tactics to defeat something, is that really such a bad thing in a non-competitive game? Or does DnD demand everyone stand toe-to-toe and hack each other mindlessly to bits?

 

[Saeviomagy]

Your hat of flight is limited to 1/day, 5 minutes at a time.

But basically flight as it was in 3.5e is bad for a number of reasons:
1. It invalidates a large number of adventure possibilities (entire categories of traps, monsters and obstacles become non-challenges as soon as you can fly)
2. It's sufficiently good that no adventurer can afford not to have it
3. It's sufficiently good that no adventurer of a level that can get it should ever invest in climb, balance or jump, and it invalidates the points that they were forced to spend on it previous to that.
4. Self-propelled superhero style flight is something I can't remember actually seeing in any fantasy fiction.
5. It's complex and slows down play.

Unless the creature who can't fly also has a crossbow, in fact the creature on the ground can duck for cover and plink away at the guy in open air, giving a clear advantage for the guy on the ground behind cover

Except that the guy in the air can do exactly the same thing. Saying that having the ability to fly AS WELL AS move on the ground is somehow a disadvantage is a little illogical.

And for the rest of the time, well damn they managed to use tactics to defeat something, is that really such a bad thing in a non-competitive game? Or does DnD demand everyone stand toe-to-toe and hack each other mindlessly to bits?

Except the 'tactics' ends up being
"We fly in the air and pelt it with stuff. Can we get our XP now?"

Non-competitive games are played for fun. The above is not fun.

 

[ZetaStriker]

Arthur Dent invented the Fly spell.

 

[LFK]

Overland Flight
Travel - 15th Level
Cost - $$$
Market - $$$
Casting Time - 10
Duration - 6 hours, sustain Standard

There you go.