The Willingness to Embrace Joy in Things.

[Scribe]

WoW was (is?) one of those really special things.

 

[Reynard]

WoW was (is?) one of those really special things.

I have friends who are currently overjoyed with the current storyline/expansion, so I would assume "is".

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I have friends who are currently overjoyed with the current storyline/expansion, so I would assume "is".

It comes and goes, I'd say. There were a couple of years where FFXIV was a distinctly better game in almost every way unless you were literally a top 0.01% raider, but now they're much closer to parity. Dragonflight was generally drastically better than recent expansions and the next expansion may be better still (may).

 

[Reynard]

It comes and goes, I'd say. There were a couple of years where FFXIV was a distinctly better game in almost every way unless you were literally a top 0.01% raider, but now they're much closer to parity. Dragonflight was generally drastically better than recent expansions and the next expansion may be better still (may).

The question wasn't whether WoW was "the best" but whether it was "special" and I think for those that love it and fine joy in it, it is, in fact, special.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The question wasn't whether WoW was "the best" but whether it was "special" and I think for those that love it and fine joy in it, it is, in fact, special.

No.

Because that's a completely meaningless statement, that shows a lack of appreciation for MMORPGs in general.

The "special" thing about WoW is that was it exceptionally good, design-wise, for a while and indeed has come back to being exceptionally good design-wise several times, and I assume that's how @Scribe was using it, because that's an actual differentiator from other MMORPGs.

But if we use your sense, of "for those that love it and find joy in it", virtually all MMORPGs are "special" and the term becomes meaningless, because like literally the vast majority of MMORPGs have people who are devoted to them, or people for whom they truly were special (even if the MMORPG has since shut down or become unplayable or whatever). Like for me, Dark Age of Camelot is the most special MMORPG, and the one I found the most joy in - probably more in the 3-4 years I played that I that in say 10 years of WoW (because WoW's design could and even can at times be quite anti-joy - and I do mean that - there have frequently been periods with WoW's design where it seemed like the designers were intentionally trying to make it "un-fun" to be more "serious" - this wasn't the initial design, note, which was pretty fun compared to other MMORPGs).

Also again the reason people like WoW right now is that it's been largely very well-designed lately (Dragonflight). If it wasn't, I suspect several of your friends who are playing it now would not be.

 

[Reynard]

No.

Because that's a completely meaningless statement, that shows a lack of appreciation for MMORPGs in general.

The "special" thing about WoW is that was it exceptionally good, design-wise, for a while and indeed has come back to being exceptionally good design-wise several times, and I assume that's how @Scribe was using it, because that's an actual differentiator from other MMORPGs.

But if we use your sense, of "for those that love it and find joy in it", virtually all MMORPGs are "special" and the term becomes meaningless, because like literally the vast majority of MMORPGs have people who are devoted to them, or people for whom they truly were special (even if the MMORPG has since shut down or become unplayable or whatever). Like for me, Dark Age of Camelot is the most special MMORPG, and the one I found the most joy in - probably more in the 3-4 years I played that I that in say 10 years of WoW (because WoW's design could and even can at times be quite anti-joy - and I do mean that - there have frequently been periods with WoW's design where it seemed like the designers were intentionally trying to make it "un-fun" to be more "serious" - this wasn't the initial design, note, which was pretty fun compared to other MMORPGs).

Also again the reason people like WoW right now is that it's been largely very well-designed lately (Dragonflight). If it wasn't, I suspect several of your friends who are playing it now would not be.

I'm honestly not sure what you are on about. Other people find joy in things you don't. Film at 11. You don't get to say they're wrong (and then, weirdly, also say they're right).

 

[Scribe]

I didnt keep up with it, I first bailed out at Wrath, and came back for the Classic + TBC run, to me, especially Vanilla/Classic, was fantastic design, that captured a huge range of demographics, player types, skill levels and was both casual and punishingly hardcore all at the same time.

Its success was unbelievable, and yeah to me even if I didn't like where it went, will always have something special to it.

There is a period in Vanilla/Classic, where I could have played it forever before the balance gets a bit tilted.

 

[trappedslider]

I couldn't find joy in playing SWTOR, however I did find joy in playing WoW and still do.

I also find joy in readying short and to the point replies instead of three or more paragraphs..

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I'm honestly not sure what you are on about. Other people find joy in things you don't. Film at 11. You don't get to say they're wrong (and then, weirdly, also say they're right).

It's not very hard imho. WoW isn't particularly more special in the way you describe than any other MMORPGs - they are games that, because of their community and longer-term elements, can really affect people, for better and worse. It is more special than other MMORPGs in a straightforward "well-designed" sense, as I believe @Scribe meant. The only person saying anyone is "wrong" here is you.

I didnt keep up with it, I first bailed out at Wrath, and came back for the Classic + TBC run, to me, especially Vanilla/Classic, was fantastic design, that captured a huge range of demographics, player types, skill levels and was both casual and punishingly hardcore all at the same time.

Its success was unbelievable, and yeah to me even if I didn't like where it went, will always have something special to it.

There is a period in Vanilla/Classic, where I could have played it forever before the balance gets a bit tilted.

Yeah I think with the definite exception of Cataclysm and perhaps BfA/Shadowlands, WoW has always a spark of design brilliance that elevated it above the other MMORPGs of the given era, no matter how hard they tried to catch up or get ahead.

And talking of embracing joy, my wife, whose had become quite cynical about MMORPGs, having played them since DAoC launched, found real joy in SWTOR when it came out, because the little story bits were so fun, especially multiplayer, where I was playing like a "reasonable" Imperial Agent, and she was playing an unrepentantly Dark Side Sith Sorcerer (or whatever they were called - the DPS one with double-bladed lightsabers). And in conversations with NPCs the game had you roll off to see who decided what happened, and they'd animated the consequences to some extent, like we're questioning an NPC about not doing what the Empire would want, and I want to be sensible and let them live with a warning and get more info, and she selects like "time to chop heads", and wins the roll, and one lightsaber noise later the NPC falls to the ground dead, and the game shows my character looking appalled. Amazing. She still says that whole SWTOR period before the story ran out was one of the best times she had in an MMORPG's PvE.

That was a game where you could be quite cynical and just try and min-max your choices like that, but if you just leaned into them, you could have such a good time.

 

[MarkB]

And talking of embracing joy, my wife, whose had become quite cynical about MMORPGs, having played them since DAoC launched, found real joy in SWTOR when it came out, because the little story bits were so fun, especially multiplayer, where I was playing like a "reasonable" Imperial Agent, and she was playing an unrepentantly Dark Side Sith Sorcerer (or whatever they were called - the DPS one with double-bladed lightsabers). And in conversations with NPCs the game had you roll off to see who decided what happened, and they'd animated the consequences to some extent, like we're questioning an NPC about not doing what the Empire would want, and I want to be sensible and let them live with a warning and get more info, and she selects like "time to chop heads", and wins the roll, and one lightsaber noise later the NPC falls to the ground dead, and the game shows my character looking appalled. Amazing. She still says that whole SWTOR period before the story ran out was one of the best times she had in an MMORPG's PvE.

That was a game where you could be quite cynical and just try and min-max your choices like that, but if you just leaned into them, you could have such a good time.

Yeah, the storylines for each class in SWTOR are very good. I remember when it first came out I was constantly several levels behind most of my friends, because while they were concentrating on a single character, I was running through at least four or five of them in parallel to experience all their stories.