My heroes: Ryan Dancey and Peter Adkison

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Are you serious? That doesn't sound friendly to 3rd party publishers at all. What company in their right mind would take the risk?

Wow....

Banshee

I don't think it's right, no.

You'd still own your stuff just like WotC owns its stuff. If WotC creates a 4E corsair after you create a 4E Corsair you aren't suddenly in non-compliance. You just wouldn't be able to go into WotC's definition of terms and apply your own.

Later 4E works would refer to the WotC Corsair and couldn't refer to yours unless you granted them a seperate permission in which case they would have to make it clear who's term they were referring to and further make it clear that they were in no way attempting to modify WotC's term unless they meant to add to it.

 

[The Sigil]

My point is that I now realize just how precious my html SRD is. I can legally burn copies for people who don't have a PHB. I can legally cut and paste from it to make my own player's handbook to distribute to my players. For free. If I want to publish my wacky house rules, I can do that pretty darn easily. Tonight, I finally understand just what Ryan and Peter gave us.

It was crazy, what they did. Obviously Hasbro and WotC think it wasn't a great business move, and I know it's true.

If Hasbro goes insane tomorrow and decides to close up shop at WotC and mothball the D&D brand forever, we still have our game. If, over the years, the new editions of D&D that will keep rolling out morph into something none of us can recognize at all, we still have our game.

So again I say, thanks guys.

This. I said something similar to it on the OGF-L list years ago - that I was glad Dancey had put at least one iteration of D&D forever beyond the reach of corporations or people who might want to kill it and/or lock it up (e.g., Lorraine Williams).

Having read the GSL, I marvel even more at the OGL and 3E SRD. Cheers, Ryan and Peter, wherever you are.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

After all that, I find myself saying "Amen" also. Not because the OGL "saved" D&D or because WotC screwed up 4e, but because I do agree that the right thing to do, especially for a niche hobby like this, is to let things move into the public domain. The OGL wasn't exactly public domain, but it was probably a step further than sane for today's IP laws and corporate environment.

Yes however this being a niche hobby large corporations and their expectations have no part in it. They're predicated on models for much larger markets that can sustain the sort of strain and overhead a niche hobby can't. Steve Jackson Games is about the biggest company that can sustain itself on the limited niche of RPGs. D&D has only really survived in WoTC because it there were many other lines to bring in profit as well and cover the overheads of a corporation of that size. Even White Wolf ended up merging with that software company.

I guess what I'm saying is the corporate environment is not a one-size fits-all solution. It works for certain types of markets, but in others it's a hindrance. And such small niche markets with limited profitability have no place in large corporations, the two models don't mix well. Large corporations will inevitably be forced to do things in order to maintain the levels of income needed to cover their overhead that will shove them out of the market and alienate the customer base they were counting on.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Yes actually. Immense.

Mutants and Masterminds was good, but I honestly don't know that a point buy system makes sense from the perspective of 4E mechanics.

So I actually don't know that a 4E Mutants and Masterminds would be such a loss.

That said, there is the d20 GSL which should open things up for Supers games and I look forward to seeing what comes out of that.

If Green Ronin decides to update the Line/Logo for 4E at that point it would be interesting but...

I think it's worth pointing out that Star Wars Saga isn't exactly 4E either. And WotC itself seems satisfied with the game and isn't updating it. So clearly not every genre/game needs the GSL.

At this point though I feel the need to state that I would, to paraphrase Meatwad, murder my own grandmother for a 4E version of John Carter of Mars.

 

[billd91]

Yes actually. Immense.

I'm not so sure it is. I don't know why M&M would want to move off its current rule-base. Are there really any innovations in 4e that would benefit M&M? Particularly without adding other complicating structures?

 

[Aus_Snow]

Gotta say, M&M seems pretty darn solid to me, as is.

If there was a revised edition, or the like, I'd have a look at it, but it would have to be a real upgrade for me to bother buying it. And that'd be a daunting task, I suspect.

Much like upgrading 3e could perhaps be, for that matter, but never mind that. . .

 

[WhatGravitas]

As much as I like 4E... the OGL is a great thing, allows everybody to work on the games one loves and was crafted in a way that it cannot be taken from us - forever. That's a great thing. I think I'm going to miss it.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Plane Sailing]

No Midnight. No Grim Tales. No Spycraft.

No True20. No Conan.

I agree with Rodrigo. The potential for third parties to introduce innovative new rules and systems which build on the best of a new edition is dramatically reduced. Similarly the potential for third parties to introduce campaigns based on niche settings or licensed rights which WotC are not interested in doing also disappears.

How sad.

 

[Buttercup]

As much as I like 4E... the OGL is a great thing, allows everybody to work on the games one loves and was crafted in a way that it cannot be taken from us - forever. That's a great thing. I think I'm going to miss it.

Cheers, LT.

Lord Tirian, it's not gone! It will never be gone! It cannot be revoked. That is my point.

 

[Henrix]

While I think that the new edition, and the GSL, is great, I am still very grateful to Adkison and Dancey (and whoever else cooked up the OGL).

They were trying to save a game they loved - no matter what it cost. Wizards had bucketloads of money from Magic, and didn't buy TSR because it was a good investment.
Making money was secondary, saving the game now and for posterity was paramount. And they did.

Hasbro, on the other hand, have baser interests - they don't care much about the game or the fans, as long as they are making money.

Under these circumstances I think the the people at Wizards have done a great job with the GSL - probably stretching things as far as they are allowed - because there are folks there who love the game and us fans.