My HP Fix

I just wanted to point out one thing: Death Spirals rarely, if ever, lead to death.

Tell that to my Jedi in Star Wars Saga. -10 to attacks, defenses, skill and attribute checks is pretty much a fight ender, I don't care how many hp you have left.

Equally, every fight in SW Revised (with v/wp) went like this: hit, miss, hit, hit, CRIT! fight's over.

Hit Points have been the GOLD STANDARD of gaming for generations. Its simplicity and being untied to specific wounds has made it accessible for years, even at the cost of a bit of verisimilitude. There have been lots of RPGs, both PnP and Video Game, that have used it. Its iconic and easy to explain to new players. I don't want to see them re-invent the wheel.

Stick fate, vitality, and critical dismemberment tables in some module in the DMG...
 

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Remathilis said:
Its simplicity and being untied to specific wounds has made it accessible for years, even at the cost of a bit of verisimilitude. There have been lots of RPGs, both PnP and Video Game, that have used it. Its iconic and easy to explain to new players. I don't want to see them re-invent the wheel. Stick fate, vitality, and critical dismemberment tables in some module in the DMG...

Exactly.

My OP is kind of a roundabout way of weeding "fate" out of the assumption of Hit Points, and allowing it to be an add-on to the central purpose of hit points: to tell you when are dying.
 



pemerton said:
(1) Without an injury penalty mechanic, nothing in the fiction signals that my flesh is being rent by swords and falls and arrows. Therefore, it is not clear, in the fiction, how losing hit points is any different from losing fate points - it seems a pointless mechanical distinction completely disjoined from any fictional realisation.

I don't know what you mean by "in the fiction."

The fiction at the table is just what the DM describes, and this, like the 5e HP notation, gives the DM guidance on how to describe various injuries. Took an arrow to the knee? It's HP damage unless fate intervenes, in which case, it's not.

It's an important distinction since, as you can plainly see, people have different ways that they conceive of this event.

(2) It is therefore not clear, at least to me, how your suggestion makes room for the "inspiration helps me recover and/or push on" trope. Adding fate points doesn't seem to represent pushing on - because, in the fiction, it's largely indistinguishable from knitting together flesh, and there are also no wounds to be pushed through. And adding hit points seems in any event to occupy whatever "push on" space there might be to the same extent as hit points.

Inspiration heals Fate. Fate lets you fight on longer, since you can substitute it for HP and it comes back faster. If your buddy inspires you to fight on for longer, you're going to fight on for longer than if no one did that (if you use Fate).

(3) Under your approach I can't do the Aragorn recovery scene in the second LotR movie -because if Aragorn is unconscious, under your system he is at 0 hp, and being at 0 hp no amount of inspiration from Arwen can restore him. That is a big blow against your system, that it cannot produce this sort of classic fantasy motif.

Dude, this is a design you can manifest in a hundred different ways.

My fave? Aragorn has regen.

Another? Aaragorn has a "Tenacious Destiny" ability that lets him fight on as long as he has Fate left, regardless of his HP. If you wanted every character to constantly be doing that, it's not difficult to put that into a Fate module.

Oh, a third: You might also rule that Arwen being a magical mystical elfy maiden lady has a magical mystical elfy ability that magically mystically elfily gives him HP back. Kinda like how her pops had all that accelerated healing back in his villa upstate.

There's more where that came from. Or you might be fine with the fact that narratives and games have different demands on their mechanics.

You don't need to have inspiration recovering sword wounds to do this. D&D has had boars that fight on at negative HP since forever. There's no concept of an HP system in which that isn't somehow possible.

(4) Under your approach, I can't have a Nordic/Celtic master of words, who simply through his speech can unravel the sustaining essence of a thing, and leave it destroyed and worthless. Vicious Mockery is closer to these classic fantasy tropes than any artillerist or flying mage of the normal RPG variety.

Dude, they can deal HP damage.

That's the distinction between It's Magic And Thus Deadly and It's Just a Word And Thus Not. You can do either one. You can do both at once, even. The system don't care. The systems like, "You want your metaphors to be absurdly physical. Mokay, boss, here's how."

So...all your problems solved, and it's not even 5 pm. I bet this is your face right now:

happy-cat+1.jpg

Gonna go invent world peace, be back in an hour.
 
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Inspiration heals Fate. Fate lets you fight on longer, since you can substitute it for HP and it comes back faster. If your buddy inspires you to fight on for longer, you're going to fight on for longer than if no one did that (if you use Fate).

Eh, I think the problem is the casual use of healing as a keyword, honestly. Healing implies it fixes Health, but HP does not stand for Health Points, but Hit Points. The only thing that a Core definition of Hit Points model explicitly in terms of health and injury are the Death and Dying rules that start up once you've lost all your Hit Points.

With that in mind I think it would be better to reserve the healing keyword for effects that can explicitly treat life-threatening physical injuries. Magical and mundane healing keyword effects can get someone who is down and at risk of dying back on their feat again. Other effects only add to your Hit Point Total but can not overcome the dying state.

Basically Magical Physical Healing, and Field Medicine would get the healing keyword. Other means of bolstering survival like enhanced luck, inspirational leadership, stamina rejuvenation, and unlocked potential could all restore Hit Points without having the healing keyword and being automatically carped on for sewing your intestines back into your stomach.

Dude, they can deal HP damage.

That's the distinction between It's Magic And Thus Deadly and It's Just a Word And Thus Not. You can do either one. You can do both at once, even. The system don't care. The systems like, "You want your metaphors to be absurdly physical. Mokay, boss, here's how."

Vicious Mockery was just a terrible power - the shame of the 4E PHB2. Everything about it but the actual numbers was awful. Given a better name and description no one would've complained. If it had been "Song of Unmaking," or "Seeds of Madness" and been given description text about unraveling the person's existence or plunging their mind into a sea of chaos and fear it would've been awesome.

- Marty Lund
 

It seems to me that Herremann the Wise has the issue well defined and has the most intriguing ideas. I would like to see true honest to goodness healing as something that is is done outside of combat during a break or rest, rather than the expected 'Red Bull' jolt taken all throughout combat. It would be nice to see a module or optional rules to separate actual wounds from the plot immunity that Hit Points largely represent, but for that separation to be meaningful, there would have to be some sort of penalty to woulds and healing that is largely different from Hit Points.
 


To 9/10 of the people here Twilight is an appalling series of vampire books that make us want to retch. (go on....disagree with me on THAT one)

How is "that all".

Perhaps elaborate before making such posts.

You know, I'm not the poster of the comment in question, but there reaches a point where one doesn't really see the need to elaborate in a quick post, especially if it is something that one imagines everyone knows (much like I don't ever feel the need to point out that water is wet, I'm sure the poster of the quote you've taken issue with just kinda assumed that most people on a gaming site would be familiar with the Twilight series of role-playing games).

So step back, take a deep breath and use some Google. I've personally never played the game, but I remember the ubiquitous ads from Dragon magazines back in the day. And I can infer based on the realistic post-WWIII nature of the game that it would be extremely lethal.

Shoot, if someone throws out a comment about CoC's insanity mechanic do you get upset because they didn't elaborate further? Some things you take as a given that gamers are familiar with....

Of course, text translates tone terribly, so it could be you didn't mean to "sound" as put-out and snarky as you did. If this is the case then I truly apologize for snarking back. If you really are put-out then, like I said, try Google before jumping down buddy's throat.

Cheers,
Colin

P.S. I would really be surprised if 9/10 of the people on this board have not at least heard of the Twilight RPG, even if they haven't played it.
 

Of course, text translates tone terribly, so it could be you didn't mean to "sound" as put-out and snarky as you did. If this is the case then I truly apologize for snarking back. If you really are put-out then, like I said, try Google before jumping down buddy's throat.

For the record, it wasnt meant to sound snarky. Stupid text not translating tone right.
 

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